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I just went over to RAWA's web site to see if they had any response up to the President's speech and didn't see anything. Has anyone seen anything from them about what they think this is going to mean for Afghan women? They've been against the U.S. military presence all along, so my guess is that they would be against the troop escalation.
In response to Greenwald: I'm sorry, but a lot of liberals have been against using military tactics precisely because they believe they hurt women. And it was feminists who were pointing out that many women in Afghanistan didn't want us bombing things on their behalf, in response to the Bush administration pretending they cared about women's rights. Reply
In response to Greenwald: I'm sorry, but a lot of liberals have been against using military tactics precisely because they believe they hurt women. And it was feminists who were pointing out that many women in Afghanistan didn't want us bombing things on their behalf, in response to the Bush administration pretending they cared about women's rights. Reply
@theKP: Greenwald is referring to the "liberal hawks," though, and feminists like Ellie Smeal, who have asserted their liberal and feminist credentials as reasons to support the war and occupation.
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@theKP: Malalai Joya was just on a speaking tour in Canada - here are some of her interviews:
[shakespearessister.blogspot.com]
[www.thestar.com]
[www.straight.com] Reply
[shakespearessister.blogspot.com]
[www.thestar.com]
[www.straight.com] Reply
@individa: But what about Yglesias? He says "listen to the women of Afghanistan" but then he points to international NGOs (which, at least in the case of HRW, don't even take positions on whether wars are just or not as a policy), rather than local Afghan women's groups, who may be less likely to champion the occupation of their own country (for their own good of course).
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@J.D.Regent: I believe Ellie Smeal has also used "listen to the women of Afghanistan". I think Greenwald is right on in his critique, and that people (especially those with power and influence, and a mainstream media "voice") who justify the wars ought to be able to own their support for the wars, rather justifying it as "helping" people by occupying them.
The substitution of international NGOs for actual grassroots voices in discussing people's needs, wants and political visions is all too sadly common, as is the idea of the all-knowing NGO that "knows better" than directly affected communities about what those communities need or want. Reply
The substitution of international NGOs for actual grassroots voices in discussing people's needs, wants and political visions is all too sadly common, as is the idea of the all-knowing NGO that "knows better" than directly affected communities about what those communities need or want. Reply
@individa: Thanks! Those are some really powerful interviews.
With regard to "liberal hawks," I guess I'm bristling because I don't see it as the liberals who were putting forth the disingenuous claim that the war was on behalf of the women, so much as Republicans (I have a very strong memory of Ben Stein claiming that the Taliban hated the U.S. because "we" let women be sexual). But I suppose there's a difference between liberals in general and "liberal hawks," and it's true that there were plenty of liberals who assuaged their guilt over supporting the war by seeing it as good for human rights. I should probably come to terms with the fact that when people talk about "liberals" they're not talking about me. Reply
With regard to "liberal hawks," I guess I'm bristling because I don't see it as the liberals who were putting forth the disingenuous claim that the war was on behalf of the women, so much as Republicans (I have a very strong memory of Ben Stein claiming that the Taliban hated the U.S. because "we" let women be sexual). But I suppose there's a difference between liberals in general and "liberal hawks," and it's true that there were plenty of liberals who assuaged their guilt over supporting the war by seeing it as good for human rights. I should probably come to terms with the fact that when people talk about "liberals" they're not talking about me. Reply
@theKP: One of the things that I really respond to in Greenwald's writing is that he focuses on the responsibility of those with power and influence, and particularly those who claim to be "serious" and "realistic" war proponents who drape themselves in the mantle of liberalism in order to entirely exclude whole perspectives and positions from the debate - and also focuses on the fact that, often, the Dems and the Reps, at least on international issues, form one bloc rather than two.
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@theKP: Oh, and you're absolutely right about right-wing men and their rhetoric about women's clothing and sexual freedom, which has been incredibly sexualized and, as flippant as it may sound in context, creepy and disturbing. There is something about these right-wing men's revulsion about the hijab (in all occasions at all times) that comes alongside utter disregard for the beliefs, opinions or lives of the women who wear it that really speaks to a fundamental belief that they have the right to access women's hair, bodies and sexuality as THEY see fit at any time.
/tangent Reply
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