At least in cockfighting you can BBQ the loser.

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If you don't like MMA, fine. Doesn't make it any less of a sport than boxing or football.

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Of course this is just IMHO.

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How do you define athlete, anyway? Norris (despite what he's turned into) practiced at a higher level than 99.9% of the planet in a combat art/sport that is at its fundamental levels as old as the oldest Olympic sports. If that's not an athlete, what the hell is?

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Personally, I'd rather see a great boxing match decided by a decision or a knock out in the later rounds rather than some dude's collarbone being snapped like a Vlasic.

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As for Norris, martial arts at its roots was a form of fighting designed for warfare. I agree he had to train at a spectacularly high level to accomplish what he did, but I don't see the mastering a form of fighting as being an "athlete", and I don't view kicking ass in a bar fight an athletic achievement.

/balls

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As for the focus on the skill, I think that's a matter of knowledge of the viewer. You have to know some wrestling or BJJ - even in passing - to appreciate the ground game and the clinch. Yes, in general UFC (and MMA) fighters aren't as clean/skilled strikers as boxers - but that's because they train to different rules which create different incentives. Things you'd do in boxing would be suicide in an MMA fight because of takedowns/ground-and-pound.

Dismissing submissions, as you do, is also a sign that you either don't know or don't like them. If it's the latter, that's a perfectly legitimate choice. But dismissing submissions as "WWE" crap is insulting martial artists around the world (who are, actually, also insulted by the WWE crap because if you let anyone put a "sleeper" hold on you, you're done, period).

Yes, I like seeing knockouts as much as the next guy. But I like seeing good submissions (and what it takes to get them) too. And if you're a boxing fan, it's a bit hypocritical to say MMA fans like to see brain trauma when that's exactly what you're watching in a "long well-fought" boxing match - you're just seeing more brain trauma inflicted in smaller doses over a longer period of time.

As for seeing a dude's collarbone snapped - that's an increasingly rare, flukish sort of event.

I understand not liking MMA as a taste issue - that's fine. Dismissing submissions like that, and saying MMA is "seemingly unregulated," though, is unfair and incorrect.

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So are just about all of the track and field events. Are they not "sports" now because they're removed in some degree from their origins (seriously, javelin?) and have instituted some rules?

Mastering a form of fighting is one thing, but I'm also talking about competing in that fighting art, under rules that limit what you can do, in ways that are much more than simply "kicking ass in a bar fight."

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I still prefer White to King, though. I didn't pay attention to King in his prime, and he's a fucking joke now. Nor did White ever, you know, kill anyone. Most White's ever done is open his big mouth and offend people.

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