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New York, 5:10 AM
Tue Dec 1
12 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of NightElfMohawk NightElfMohawk
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Wait, so they want someone who couldn't hit anything except a home run (and that was only due to performance enhancing drugs) to be the Cardinals hitting coach? As a Cubs fan, I'm all for this. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    FlakJack promoted this comment NightElfMohawk was starred NightElfMohawk was unstarred
    Image of MarkKelsosMigraine MarkKelsosMigraine
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    I don't know about "hitching" my wagon, but I am gonna paint our wagon, gonna paint it fine, gonna use an oil based paint, cause this wood is pine. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    MarkKelsosMigraine was starred MarkKelsosMigraine was unstarred
    Image of StanGable StanGable
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Who cares about his reputation? When a guy with a .263 lifetime average and 100 strikeouts a year asks to be your hitting coach you say yes. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    StanGable was starred StanGable was unstarred
    Image of Convict78 Convict78
    10/26/09

    @StanGable: Because there is a direct correlation to hitting ability and the ability to teach others how to hit.

    /Except that there's not #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Convict78 was starred Convict78 was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @Convict78: Whats the correlation of guys who are not good at hitting baseballs in the majors ever becoming good at it based on what some guy said? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Moobs Moobs
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    So a career .260 hitter is going to make the Cardinals hit...better? Awesome. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Moobs was starred Moobs was unstarred
    Image of metalmaniac metalmaniac
    10/26/09

    @Moobs: Charley Lau, widely regarded as one of the greatest hitting coaches of all time, had a lifetime BA of .255. Walt Hriniak had 25 career hits, and spent 20 years in the Bigs as a highly respected hitting coach. I could rattle off the names of other mediocre, at best, players who went on to become very successful hitting/pitching coaches, but I won't, because it's a futile gesture. Other than maybe Rod Carew, name me the last great hitter that was successful as a hitting coach. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment metalmaniac was starred metalmaniac was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @metalmaniac: Maybe the good coaches had good hitters and the bad coaches had bad hitters?

    Other than trying to install a philosophy, i.e. take pitches, work the count, I fail to see how a "hitting coach" can have any discernible impact on a major leaguer's ability to hit a baseball effectively. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Dashiell Bennett Dashiell Bennett
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: Even Tiger Woods has a swing coach. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Dashiell Bennett was starred Dashiell Bennett was unstarred
    Image of ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: Have you never read stories of players who credit their coaches with noticing something wrong in their mechanics? Do you really assume that all players come to the majors fully-formed, and that coaching is not helpful?

    Ways coaches help players:
    1) Installing a philosophy, i.e. take pitches, work the count (thanks for providing the first example that undermines your argument)
    2) Correct hitches or poor mechanics in players' swings or pitching motions
    3) Teach new skills (many coaches have taught pitchers how to throw different pitches)
    4) Suggest new batting stances and take the time to help players learn and get used to them
    5) Watch film for clues about opponents and share that knowledge (when Santana holds his glove this way, a changeup is coming, etc.)

    I'm sure there are hundreds more. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers was starred ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers: If a guy can hit a baseball, he can hit a fucking baseball. As much as players always credit their hitting coach, (which now that you mention it I have read those articles and they totally validate your argument), Im pretty sure A-rod was good at hitting before he met Kevin Long. The minor adjustments you mention, are just that. Sure, they are luxury you can afford to have when you are raking in money, but they are by no means necessary to the game and the players ability to play it.

    @Dashiell Bennett: He's not Tiger Woods because of his swing coach, though. Golf is also much different than baseball. I don't know much about it, but there are tons of different types of shots to make, each with a different type of swing. I can see how a coach would be more beneficial.
     Reply
    Edited by dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac at 10/26/09 2:12 PM dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Spielman Spielman
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting that major league baseball players spring fully formed from the forehead of Zeus. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Spielman was starred Spielman was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @Spielman: If you're not a good hitter by the time you get to the Major Leagues, chances are you are just not a good hitter. But by all means, keep hoping you find that magical person who will unlock the mysteries of being able to hit like a champion because he saw tape of you and thinks you should just have a little bit higher of a leg kick. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Jobu's Refill Jobu's Refill
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: Good point. The key to a long, productive career is the if it aint broke... mentality. Leave the adjustments and need for improvement for those over-achievers.

    Do you by chance, work in the Royals front office? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Jobu's Refill was starred Jobu's Refill was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @Jobu's Refill: Are you trying to say that great baseball hitters are reliant on "good" "hitting coaches" and specifically minor adjustments made over the course of a season? We can save ourselves a lot of aggravation if you are.
     Reply
    Edited by dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac at 10/26/09 2:54 PM dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: I think you're really missing the difference between: 1) turning a crappy hitter into a great one and
    2) helping any hitter improve, even slightly, over the course of a season or career.

    You are referring to #1. Everybody else is referring to #2.

    I would also argue that hitting and pitching coaches are not a "luxury," as they have been pretty standard throughout baseball (majors, minors, and college) for decades. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers was starred ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers was unstarred
    Image of Jobu's Refill Jobu's Refill
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese... mac: I'm saying great hitters, and more specifically great swings are not produced over-night. That they are constantly studied/evaluated/adjusted.I'm saying the exact job description of a hitting coach is to assist players in that study/evaluation/adjustment. So yes, a good hitting coach can be a huge help to even great hitters. Even the great swings have holes. And even the great hitters can slip into flaws. Pitchers will find them. Hitters and hitting coaches work to stay ahead of that curve.Not even mentioning the preperation that hitters and coaches utilize going into each at bat. #markmcgwire
    /dick joke
     Reply
    Edited by Jobu's Refill at 10/26/09 3:15 PM Jobu's Refill was starred Jobu's Refill was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @ohmygodtheykilledkennyrogers: Since I'm the one you are all responding to, maybe I am not missing any point, and in fact, continuing to make the same point I originally made and you are all taking about the wrong thing.

    Like I said, are you saying a "good" "hitting coach" is responsible for quality major league hitting? I think you'd be foolish to argue that. Can he help a guy out? Sure. Its always good to have a second set of eyes looking over your work. But, if you can't write, all the editors in the world can't turn you into a great writer. That was, and continues to be, my point. So, please, don't tell me what I'm missing the point on.

    My point about it being a luxury is, like I said in black and white, its not necessary but since there's no shortage of money and everyone else has one, why not have him. A hitting coach is not integral to the game of baseball. i.e. a luxury.

    No one is talking about pitching coaches.

    Thanks for letting me know that hitting and pitching coaches are "pretty standard" throughout baseball, though. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @Jobu's Refill: again: great hitters are great because of hitting coaches, or are hitting coaches just helpful? Maybe a hitting coach gets a guy out of a slump quicker because he "picks up on something in his swing" I dont know. Maybe. The guy still has to be able to hit a baseball well.
    I refuse to believe, however, that a hitting coach is actually worth all the attention he gets. And no hitting coach is turning an average minor league hitter into an above average major league hitter. So, what are we even talking about? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Jobu's Refill Jobu's Refill
    10/26/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: A good hitting coach on the field, or in the front office identifies the players and swings that can or cannot make good major league hitters.

    Hence the Royals reference. We were promised the second coming of George Brett in Alex Gordon. Except that everyone else in the league recognized the gaping holes in his swing. The things over-looked by the organization and his minor-league hitting instructor, the first coming of George Brett. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Jobu's Refill was starred Jobu's Refill was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    @Jobu's Refill: So he was a poor hitter? Who could not be helped by a hitting coach? Weird. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Spielman Spielman
    10/27/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: Alternately, maybe you're being a giant douche. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Spielman was starred Spielman was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/27/09

    @Spielman: It's difficult to argue with such a finely crafted argument. Thanks for bringing something worthwhile to the discussion. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Spielman Spielman
    10/27/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: I always try to tailor the level of my responses to the level of the person I'm interacting with. With that in mind: UR wlcm. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Spielman was starred Spielman was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/28/09

    @Spielman: Hey look! The only guy to not make any kind of point, in a thread with, like, 20 comments and legitimate points being made on either side, just called me dumb!

    Everyone Else: here are reasons why I think hitting coaches are valuable/overrated.
    You: You are a douche. You are dumb.

    I think we can stop this now, don't you? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Spielman Spielman
    10/28/09

    @dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac: Fine with me. And by the way? Hypothesis confirmed. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Spielman was starred Spielman was unstarred
    Image of Stev D Stev D
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Hey America, maybe we move past this steriod thing, and maybe my enormous son doesn't come by and smash your home into a million-billion tiny little pieces-- your choice. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Stev D was starred Stev D was unstarred
    Image of Civil Negligence Civil Negligence
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Hitch your wagon to Tony La Russa's star

    No way, Jose. I just bought this wagon last week! #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Civil Negligence was starred Civil Negligence was unstarred
    Image of Weed Against Speed Weed Against Speed
    10/26/09

    @Civil Negligence: "Jose isn't here right now. He's probably out getting a taco."

    - Bob Griese #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Weed Against Speed was starred Weed Against Speed was unstarred
    Image of ArkansasFred ArkansasFred
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    The Cards will regret this once someone finds Khalil Greene's head 30 feet away from the rest away of his body.

    "Swing through the fucking pitch! Through the pitch!! ARGH!!!!!!" #markmcgwire
     Reply
    ArkansasFred was starred ArkansasFred was unstarred
    Image of DennyCrane DennyCrane
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Since Tony Dungy and a third-string quarterback position were both unavailable ...

    I'm not so sure about that last one. Has he given Al Davis a call yet? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    DennyCrane was starred DennyCrane was unstarred
    Image of SavetoFavorites SavetoFavorites
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    I'm guessing that the idea didn't seem so hot at first, but that LaRussa found it more and more attractive as the evening wore on. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Stev D promoted this comment SavetoFavorites was starred SavetoFavorites was unstarred
    Image of Doug Dascenzo's Only Fan Doug Dascenzo's Only Fan
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    "Instead, he's decided to follow the playbook of any smart scandal-ridden athlete looking to get back in the public's good graces."

    If I Did It...the Mark McGwire Steroid Story? #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Doug Dascenzo's Only Fan was starred Doug Dascenzo's Only Fan was unstarred
    Image of dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    In a tragic case of "too little, too late", The Steve Howe Rehabilitation Project also begins now. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was starred dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac was unstarred
    Image of Pedro Cuatrocinco Pedro Cuatrocinco
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Once fans get used to seeing him in that Cardinal uniform again

    If it's the same one, they won't be seeing much of him. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    Pedro Cuatrocinco was starred Pedro Cuatrocinco was unstarred
    Image of FrancoeurFellator FrancoeurFellator
    10/26/09

    In reply to The Mark McGwire Rehabilitation Project Begins Now
    Mark McGwire: "Do you want to talk about the past...or do you want to see me sock some dingers?"
    Everyone: "DINGERS!!" #markmcgwire
     Reply
    FAILBOT promoted this comment FrancoeurFellator was starred FrancoeurFellator was unstarred
    Image of FAILBOT FAILBOT
    10/26/09

    @FrancoeurFellator: You're lucky - you were the 999th person to mistake repeating that Simpsons quote for actually making a joke. The 1000th gets a special FAILBOT mystery prize. #markmcgwire
     Reply
    FAILBOT was starred FAILBOT was unstarred
    Image of Las Goteras Las Goteras
    09/23/09

    In reply to Mark McGwire's Insurance Policy Required Him To Take The Stuff That Inspired Our National 'Roids Hysteria
    You know you've fucked up when it takes a decade for your lawyers to come up with a remotely plausible excuse for your actions.
     Reply
    Chris Hanson's Axe promoted this comment Barry Lutz approved this comment Las Goteras was starred Las Goteras was unstarred
    Image of David Hume David Hume
    09/23/09

    In reply to Mark McGwire's Insurance Policy Required Him To Take The Stuff That Inspired Our National 'Roids Hysteria
    Alligators, Body Parts, Fantasy Leagues

    Coincidentally, this is the title of that screenplay that Bill Simmons keeps mailing me.
     Reply
    David Hume was starred David Hume was unstarred
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