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New York, 11:40 PM
Fri Dec 4
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Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?

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Dave J.
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
Stealing signs from second is ok, but if a batter looks down at the catcher and tries to steal signs, the next pitch is a fastball at his head. Baseball has a curious set of unwritten rules.
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Silent Q
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?

"Nope." - Gaylord Perry
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apostles03
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
Cheating, my ass. Baseball is a smart man's game. The power of observation combined with a means to communicate information to teammates has defeated superior skill/size many, many times on a baseball field. There is nothing wrong with stealing signs, just as there is nothing wrong with stealing coachers' signs by way of videotape---something that the NFL makes a big deal about, but MLB teams have been doing since the invention of the camcorder.

I had seats on the first base line at PNC Park this past May and I personally witnessed some dude videotaping the Cardinals' third base coach all game long for 2 straight games. I assume he was doing it for a division rival (the Cards were playing the Brewers next, then the Cubs). Shocking? No.... just part of the game, as far as I am concerned.
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TT-Zop
10/01/09

@apostles03: Hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.

It's not complicated.
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Chip Skylark of Space
10/02/09

@TT-Zop: It's not complicated.

...unless you were Yogi Berra.
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LillianHecteyes
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
The sequence of signs from a catcher can be very elaborate. It could be as easy as "the second sign in the sequence....the third sign in the sequence, etc..." Or, it the catcher puts down an initial sign, which signals to the pitcher which sign in the sequence the pitch will be. For example, if the catcher initially puts down 2 fingers, that signals to the pitcher that the sign will be the 2nd sign AFTER the initial indicator sign. This way of relaying signs from catcher-to-pitcher is much harder for a runner to keep up with, as the sequence changes every time. Although, a catcher like Mauer, is used to sending signs himself, and is clearly on to whatever system Laird and Verlander used.

Stealing signs from 2nd has been happening as long as baseball has been played. This is nothing new, just a clear example that was caught on TV. It's merely a part of gamemanship in baseball. I don't think it's any different than defensive players in football picking up a quarterback's audibles.
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HurtsSoGood
10/01/09

@LillianHecteyes: Seriously. Sport is a metaphor for war, and espionage is perfectly acceptable in war. It's like when people say Bobby Thompson's "shot heard around the world" homer was the result of a stolen sign from somebody in the bullpen or from the dugout watching the TV feed. So? That's cheating? I don't think so.
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melslirrup
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
This isn't "tipping." "Tipping" is when you give away your OWN pitches. This is "sign stealing" and the reason catchers are taught to obscure their signs with a runner on second.

Pls find writers who know something about baseball. (And stop censoring your comments.)
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Karlifornia
10/01/09

@melslirrup: You may be right, but you're also getting tangled in a web of semantics and vocabulary that do nothing but obscure the real heart of the matter.

Is this wrong? I, myself, can't come to a conclusion either way. If my hand was forced at this very moment, I'd say it adds a new level of chess-playing and gamesmanship to baseball, which is infinitely more interesting. You could also add that, if Verlander didn't want to deal with this scenario, he shouldn't have given up the double, and giving up big hits should put you, at the very least, on the precipe of catastrophe.
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Karlifornia
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
Pedro Guerrero was always guilty of this. If a fastball was coming, he'd rub his penis on some cold cuts. If a slider was coming, out comes the penis on the cold cuts trick...Curveball? He'd touch on his helmet.

And by touch, I meant rub his penis. And by his helmet, I mean cold cuts.
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melslirrup
10/01/09

In reply to Think There's No Cheating In Baseball?
Um, the only issue in this video is that the catcher apparently initially forgot there was a man on second. You're taught in little league to change your signals into a sequence when there's a runner on second, for this exact reason. And it's not called "tipping," it's called "sign stealing."

Second, the pitch-tipping "issue" was that 2B/SS were supposedly tipping pitches from their own pitchers when their "friends" were at bat, late in a lopsided game.

Deadspin, you really need to hire some writers who know something about baseball.
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dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac promoted this comment Edited by dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac at 10/01/09 2:43 AM melslirrup was starred melslirrup was unstarred

dont-forget-where-you-came-from-cheese mac
10/01/09

@melslirrup: its not that hard to figure out a sequence. I'm pretty sure I saw the catcher throw down a number of signs each pitch.
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