<![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die - Deadspin Comments]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die - Deadspin Comments]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @SlantedAndDisenchanted: Agreed. I think I'll always be in love with baseball though. Despite all its warts.

But the whole steroids crap just doesn't pass the smell test. It's hard for me to just write off as just another phase of baseball's past (present?). There's something about the whole mess that's just so... dirty.

FightTiger

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @FightTiger:
No, I completely agree with you. This is an awful point in the sport's history, unlike any of the other things I mentioned. What I'm saying is that I have a problem with fans who convince themselves that baseball was somehow really "pure" up until the steroid/HGH scandal broke. My point is just that the sport has never been as pure and Roy Hobbsian as a lot baseball folks seem to believe. It's like the people who think the 50s was a really innocent time in America because of what was being reflected to them on television. The bad stuff was there, it's just no one wanted to talk about it.

SlantedAndDisenchanted

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @FightTiger: I agree 100%. Of course baseball has never been "pure" per se, but you are right that all of the vices mentioned did not give anyone an advantage (except maybe with the ladies).

Midwesterner in NYC

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @SlantedAndDisenchanted: Okay, taking shots at the history or "nostalgia" of baseball's past is fine. No doubt you're entitled.

But how, pray tell, did any of those things you mention give any of those players a competitiva advantage? That's the distinction here.

The Mick being drunk? Nope. No advantage there. Not denying the truth of the statement, but it's not tantamount to taking steroids. Ty Cobb being a racist? Nope. No advantage. Cocaine? I cannot imagine how being strung out would help you hit a 99 MPH fastball, or make a pitcher have pinpoint control... so, no advantage there either.

Of course baseball has a colorful past. But people who just want to dismiss this PED plague as simply a "phase" that the game is going through and no different from other "phases" are taking the cop out route.

FightTiger

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> See this is the problem I have with hardcore baseball fans and a lot of baseball writers. They hang onto this mytholiogical idea of the pureness of baseball. America's Pastime, etc. But it's never been pure. Micky Mantle--the great Mick!--the guy fathers and sons used go watch at the ol' ball park, didn't remember most of his career because he was an ungodly drunk. We all know about Ty Cobb. And yes, the coke problem in the 80s was probably greater than we'll ever know. I think baseball apologists need to cut the shit and come to grips with the real history of their sport.

SlantedAndDisenchanted

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @Planet B: Except with Bonds there's that little thing called evidence in the form of... oh... I don't know... ADMITTING to using steroids UNDER OATH. I GUESS we could consider that to be proof of guilt, without having to rely on suppositions and inferences.

FightTiger

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @the cajun boy: I prefer to call it Flaxseed Oil

@FightTiger: Yeah, I think he will.

@dmbmeg: Cesar Izturis is a member of that lineup..... so the answer is Yes!

@Planet B:

I just don't see why fans would have a problem with a "proven" user and not over a highly-suspected user.

For me I think it is just trying to hold on to what was once something that was really important to me and seemed pure (yes I know in the 80's everyone was on coke, but you know what I mean) hoping it can return to that pureness. Of course that will most likely never happen but I have yet to realize that yet.

Midwesterner in NYC

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @FightTiger: When it comes to baseball, I'd say yes. People have done it for years to Bonds, now it's just expanding because of what we know. Presumption of innocence is for the courts, not baseball.

Planet B

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> Cardinals fans rooted for McGwire right? All fans of any team will accept anyone. The Red Sox are all douchebags until one of their best players plays for your team. Seinfeld was of course dead on with the sports fandom being about laundry bit.

SlantedAndDisenchanted

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> true, but I think most baseball fans aren't naive enough to think there aren't many more players who haven't been outed yet. Pujols is certainly at the top of the list of players that people have suspicions about. And if there's one thing the Mitchell Report tells us, it's that performance enhancing use is rampant in the sport. I guess I just don't see why fans would have a problem with a "proven" user and not over a highly-suspected user.

Planet B

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @Midwesterner in NYC:
Is there room in the Cards lineup for Mary J Blige?

dmbmeg

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @Midwesterner in NYC: I think you're right, it will be a tepid "Cardinal Welcome"... but Glaus will get a "Cardinal Welcome" nonetheless.

@Planet B: So... supposition is now tantamount to guilt?

FightTiger

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @Midwesterner in NYC: what? athletes are using steroids?!

the cajun boy

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> @Planet B: Perhaps, but there is no proof no matter what anyone might suspect. With Glaus there is not that luxury of "ignorance is bliss".

Midwesterner in NYC

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> Umm... Cards fans, what about Albert? So Glaus is "out", that doesn't mean Poo-holes is clean.

Planet B

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> Seriously, i am tired.

supermike4ever

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> Has the bar on Eli Manning been so lowered that not screwing up counts for greatness these days?

UkraineNotWeak aka Praying for a Bullpen

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> I'm going with the new JJ Reddick, Greg Paulus, for NCAA douchebag of the year.

Who ya got?

umlaut75

]]> <![CDATA[The Thing That Would Not Die]]> Roger Director, penis erector.

I mean, good writer. Oh god.

Stev D

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