Many of you who have the luxury of staying at home all day might recognize Robert Flores from ESPN's afternoon SportsCenter, which he co-anchors with Chris McKendry. Or you might recognize him from his time on ESPNNews. Or, for those of you who are Lone Star residents, you might remember him as the Austin sports anchor who was fired after he accidentally dropped an f-bomb on air. Or you might not have any idea who he is at all. But you should . Here Flores gives us some insight into what it's like doing a live SportsCenter everyday, the fallout from getting fired, and how he's most likely never going to get caught carousing like some of his other ESPN colleagues.

DS: How do you like the live format? Have you had any missteps on the air so far that have been completely memorable? So far, we've had McKendry spout off "Viagra" instead of Villanova and Clayton allegedly breaking wind during the morning hour. Does this cross your mind every day when you do live spots?

,RF: I was a little skeptical at first about a morning and afternoon Sportscenter. But, after five months I like it. I think we're still trying to find our niche but I think we've made some improvements in how to cover breaking news as well as give a fresh perspective to last night's highlights.

Now, let me just say I did extensive investigation on the alleged incident involving John Clayton. I talked with our audio guys, as well as the floor crew... I went "CSI" on that piece of tape and I feel confident in saying John wasn't the culprit. Honestly, I don't know who or what did it but it wasn't the "Professor."

You want to talk about embarrassing moments. For me it happened when I was on the evening SportsCenter several months ago. I said "shot clock" during a highlight, except I said something that rhymes with "clock". Yeah... I know. But that clip ended up on the Howard Stern show so I felt a little better.

DS: Before you were at SportsCenter, you worked as a sports reporter for KEYE in Austin where you were fired for "uttering the F-word" on air. Somehow, your career wasn't ruined after that and you managed to land at ESPN. Tell me what the day was like after you realized that your "fuck" made the air and then the subsequent firing. Walk me through your emotional state, if you could:

RF: Which is a perfect segue into question number two. It's amazing that this story still gets talked about. What ran on the air that morning was a "busted take" from two nights before. So not only was the tape wrong, but it was from the wrong day as well. Luckily because that place was struggling a bit a lot of people didn't see it. But, the company had a "zero tolerance" policy so I got canned. I couldn't believe it at first. I remember telling my son who was 10 at the time, "I said something I shouldn't have said and I got fired. If you make mistakes you have to be willing to face the punishment".

DS: Ironically, you were also on air during Danyelle Sargent's first "what the fuck was that?!" moment on ESPN news. Did you comfort her or have any sage advice for her after that happened?

RF: Danyelle is a great person and I enjoyed working with her. I remember at the time having a sinking feeling in my stomach because I knew our mics were "hot" She felt terrible about it as did everyone else. There wasn't much I could tell her. At the time I felt like anything I would have said would have made things worse. However, she eventually moved on and it seems like she's enjoying herself now during this phase of her career.

DS: What is the five-year plan for an ESPN afternoon anchor? Do you have aspirations of becoming the next 11:30 "Big Show" SportsCenter personality? Do you have catch phrases written down some place that you recite to yourself in front of the mirror each morning to motivate?

RF: I just want to do good TV. I like my new role. Before I was kind of all over the place, this show seems like something that "belongs" to me, something I can grow into. I like working with Chris and everyone else on the show. Being live for three hours everyday I think you develop a "bunker" mentality with your co-workers. However, I'm always willing to accept new challenges.

DS: Do you get paranoid when you're out in public, acting all crazy, that some punk with a cellphone will snap your picture and you'll end up with some of the sports blog ignominy of some of your colleagues? What if some jerkoff actually peered over your shoulder to see who you were texting and then reported its contents to the world?

RF: I'm not famous... I'm kind of like the Tony Danza of Sportscenter anchors. Although, I continue to enjoy quite a following in West, Texas.

DS:Do you understand how some sports fans can get turned off by ESPN's all-encompassing power? Do you wish that, sometimes, ESPN was more mom-and-pop than Wal-Mart?

RF: Yep it doesn't get more "mom and pop" than Wal-Mart.. 7,300 stores worldwide..they are the little engine that could.

I think most of our harshest critics are fellow members of the media. People who write for blogs, newspapers etc. I read where CBS' Jim Nantz said when asked about our BCS deal, "I hope they just leave something for us." I'm a huge fan of Jim Nantz, like me he's a University of Houston alum, but ESPN is a sports network. That's what we do. And if memory serves...doesn't CBS have a billion dollar deal to show the NC Double A basketball tournament exclusively? However, I'll let you in a little secret — we are in serious negotiations with CBS Young and the Restless so be on the look out for that.

Before working here, I rarely watched SportsCenter. I didn't really appreciate the product. After working here obviously that's changed. I think we do our best to keep in mind what fans think and want and hopefully those who turned away come back in the future

DS: When I first talked to you on the phone, I mistakenly referred to you as the "Most popular Mexican sports anchor in the world." You corrected me and said something about the "Hispanic community" or something. Either way, do you feel like you're some sort of a trailblazer for some ethnic community?

RF: Yep I'm Mexican American. Earlier this year I was asked to speak at this function in Dallas. The organizers asked if I was the first Hispanic to anchor Sportscenter. I thought to myself, "you know that's a good question." I asked our PR department and they weren't sure..at any rate if I am the first then I'm honored. If not, it's nice to be among the first. ESPN has done great work in the area of diversity both on and behind the camera, ESPN Deportes has been a big success. However, I hope we can continue to make strides in that area especially since the Hispanic fan base continues to grow both domestically and abroad.

DS: So what does Robert Flores do when he's off air. Say I called you on the phone and I was like, "Hey, Bobby, what's up with you, ese?" What kind of off-air activity would you be doing?

RF: First, I would say , "there's no Bobby here." Then I might say, "Who you trying to get crazy with ese, don't you know I'm loco??"

A.J. I live an exciting life. If I'm not saving lives in my side job as a podiatrist, then I'm whittling driftwood in the likeness of Ric Flair.

If I'm not doing those things then I'm playing basketball or video games with my kids. I also like to play golf in the spring and summertime

DS: What is the your proudest moment at the WWL so far? Was there one particular day where you spun around in your chair, reveling in your own awesomeness?

RF: One day one of our producers had his family up to the newsroom and he introduced me as "one of our Sportscenter anchors". Sounds hokey I know, but it felt good at the time. In fact I'm crying right now as I type this.

DS: Who is the best in your business right now? Fred Hickman?

RF: Well, I worked with Fred a few times and he was nothing but nice to me. But for my money best in the business right now: Scott Van Pelt and John Buccigross. Both are hilarious and do a great job of telling story with the hi-lites. With that said, just about everyone at ESPN is the cream of the crop, so to just pick one or two is very difficult.

After the jump, Gregg Doyel being Gregg Doyel.

DS: So you briefly mentioned it in one of your mailbag columns, but what was the deal with you flipping out on those poor Arkansas DJs? Was there some bad blood, or were you just in a foul mood?

GD: No bad blood, no foul mood, no nothing. The question that set me off would probably set me off again if anyone ever asks me something like it down the road: "Before you wrote this column on Arkansas (or whatever), did you come to Arkansas (or wherever) to report the column?" Come on — that's ridiculous. You don't have to live in Arkansas to be appalled by how that fan base has behaved over the last couple of years. Actually, if I get that question again and I go off again, I WILL be disappointed in myself for my lack of originality. But I'm not disappointed I went off that time. I mean, I realize the mature thing would be to say I'm disappointed. But I'm not. I'm me. And going off on occasion ... that's me.

DS: Is there a method to your columnist assholery? How much of your style is overblown into a calculated persona?

GD: You assume I'm going to agree with the adjective "assholery." Maybe that's an adverb. Ah, hell, whatever it is ... I agree with it. But it's not calculated, if by calculated you mean insincere. I believe everything I write, and my aim is to tell readers something they're not expecting to hear, maybe even something they would inherently disagree with. My ultimate goal is that by the time they finish the story, I've changed their mind — but I'll settle for having challenged their preconceived notion on the topic. And if I fail at both ... well, then, assholery is mine!

DS: Do you have any influences? I know Rick compared you to a budding Jay Mariotti in the piece he wrote, but is he someone you look up to?

GD: I saw what Rick wrote, and sighed. That comparison was a matter of time. But I'm 38 — I'm not a budding anything. Whatever I am, I'm in full flower. But anyway ... um, my favorite writers when I was younger were Dan Le Batard for his eye for detail, Leigh Montville for his rhythm and Rick Reilly for his creative genius. Le Batard isn't writing now, Montville has completely disappeared, and Reilly is so likely to mail it in, he ought to just write from the post office. Which means I need to find some new role models. Well, here's one: I love me some Matt Taibbi. And Dr. Seuss.

DS: Have you ever written something negative about someone that you would ever take back? Have you ever felt something you wrote wasn't fair?

GD: Last year before the BCS title game I predicted Jim Tressel would outcoach Les Miles, and while I'm not sorry that the prediction was so dreadfully wrong, I do wish I hadn't been so rude in my commentary on Miles. I'm not proud of that one. I don't even want to read that thing. I'm guessing you'll find it and link to it, which makes me wonder (A) why I would offer it up to you in the first place and (B) if I'll click the link as I'm reading this interview online. Probably I will. Maybe after reading it again I won't feel as bad as I do currently. But I doubt it.

DS: Do you think the role of the columnist has transformed at all since you've been doing it? Have you had to augment your style at all in the new sports media marketplace?

GD: Columnists haven't changed — everyone else has changed, or should change. The straight game story is a dinosaur. It's a complete waste of time, the Catholic ritualization of empty gestures. Hell, all stories, other than breaking news — and even that, come to think of it — are being (or should be) written with more insight, analysis and opinion. More like a column, in other words. A straightly written story is an insult to readers, considering many of them already know the news before they click on us, whether we're online or in print. It takes some kind of gall to assume people are getting information from "us," whoever "us" is. We need to get away from the "who, what and when" and focus more on the "why" and "how." And I think we mostly do, across the board. Those who don't ... suck.

DS: Who's the most overrated sports columnist working today? Underrated?

GD: Overrated? I guess Reilly, although I'm not sure who other than his editors at ESPN rates him that highly any more. Bill Simmons is very good, but I don't get the mass hysteria every time he writes, or doesn't write, or whatever. So I guess that means I think he's overrated, too, but not for the same reason as Reilly. I respect Simmons' work and effort. I just don't get the frothing that follows it. I'm probably jealous. As for underrated ... three guys from CBSSports.com blow me away, and then I'll mention three others from outside: Dennis Dodd is as good as it gets with words. Gary Parrish is the best all-around talent I've ever worked with. And Mike Freeman makes me laugh more than anyone. Elsewhere ... does anyone really understand how good Paul Daugherty of the Cincinnati Enquirer is? There aren't five better columnists in the country. Not five. I defy anyone to read him for a month and tell me I'm wrong. But until I moved to Cincinnati in 2004, I had no idea. Also, Greg Couch of the Chicago Sun-Times and Mike Finger from San Antonio are fabulous. Whatever their rep is, their talent exceeds it.

DS: Would you ever work for ESPN's print or online publications?

GD: I already have. I was the ESPN.com ACC columnist for football and basketball before going to CBSSports.com in 2003. So the question is, would I work for them again? Sure I would. But I love where I am, and if I retire from this business after 30 more years at CBS and only CBS, I'll consider myself a lucky man. Any of my three supervisors (Mark Swanson, Craig Stanke and Lyle Crouse) would be the best boss I've ever had. I'm talking passionate, if platonic, love for all three of them.

DS: Do you think the critiques of certain journalists by other journalists are racist/sexist or unfair?

The possible racism I see is in the critiques of our business, not in the actual hiring (as if) or the execution of our business. Go to SportsJournalists.com, for example, and you'll see certain writers get ripped over and over and over. I'm thinking Scoop Jackson and Jason Whitlock and a handful of others. And while I can't say for sure who's ripping them — the brave posters are mostly anonymous — I have a general idea. It's a bunch of white guys, people who by definition don't have the perspective or voice that Jackson or Whitlock or, to name a woman, Karen Crouse has. So that ignorance of an unusual perspective/voice breeds dislike of that perspective/voice. I'm not sure racism or sexism is the exact word for the whole thing, but it's bad, whatever it is.

DS: Do you think anonymous message board posters bring out both the good and bad in writers? Everybody reads them, yet they say they ignore them, yet there are always a few that seem to force the writer to confront some harsh truths about themselves.

GD: Anonymous message boards serve a purpose, and for the most part, it's a great thing — really. It's a place to exchange ideas or blow off steam or swap stories. But when anonymous assholes start ripping media members it makes me queasy. Mariotti gets hammered for not going into clubhouses or locker rooms, and that does strike me as a bad way to do his job, but message board heroes feel all big and bad for ripping him, or someone else, behind some clever (not) nickname. It's pathetic. At least Mariotti, or whoever, puts a name on the rip job. The cowards who do it facelessly ... I cannot respect. And that includes anyone reading this who counts me as a friend. I do not respect you. I just wish I knew who you were so I could tell you to your face.

Oh, and I read that thing [Sportsjournalists.com] four times a day. Not saying I don't. But there's not a single truth I'm ever going to believe about myself — even if it IS a truth — if it's offered by some anonymous asshole.

DS: Well, what's your biggest criticism of yourself, then?

GD: Damn that's a great question to ask anybody of themselves. I'm probably too belligerent or confrontational, and I don't just mean in my job, but that's probably what you're asking about. When I'm faced with the choice of going too far or not going far enough, I'm going to go too far. Every time. That means writing a single line or an entire column, or asking a question during an interview, or snapping at a radio guy. I've got no fear, which can be good, but I also have no diplomacy, which can be bad, and that's everywhere. I've gone onto my kid's school bus to chew out the driver (he had it coming, but still). Principals at my boys' schools know who I am, because when I have a problem, well, now YOU have a problem. Apparently assholery is a way of life for me. And now that I've used it in a sentence ... it's a noun. Definitely.

DS: What would you have done if you were in the Adrian Wonjnarowski situation? Would you have reacted similarly? Or, at least, wanted to?

GD: Well, here's a true story: I'd already read that post earlier today, and as soon as I finished, I sent Adrian a text message to congratulate him on the way he handled it. That doesn't mean I'd have handled it the same way, because I'm not sure I'm generous enough to offer the guy a plane ticket. (This is where I say something dumb like, "I prefer to give out my ass whippings for free.") But I'll tell you something I HAVE done: I've been irritated enough by certain anonymous SJ.com posters that I tracked every post they'd written, took notes and figured out who they were. Then I confronted them, both of them, next time I saw each of them in a press box. Didn't challenge them to a fight or anything, but let them know I knew who they were, and if they had anything else to say about the way I do my job, to feel free to say it right there. Of course they said nothing. Clowns. I got both of their ID's correct, by the way. (That story is sad enough as it is, but imagine if I'd confronted the wrong guy. Next time, maybe.)

Oh, there was the time last year when a West Virginia football beat writer, don't know who he is, was cursing at the college students who were bringing him postgame stats on deadline. Apparently they weren't bringing them fast enough. Anyway, I told him to knock it off. He cursed me, so I told him I'd be waiting for him outside the press box when we were done writing. The guy finished before me and was gone. Crap.

DS: Do you think more readers would like you or dislike you if they met you in person?

GD: They'd have to like me more in person, if for no other reason than they couldn't possibly like me less than they do on-line. I'm joking, I guess, but whether that's actually true depends on when someone runs into me. I'm pretty moody (shocking), and if I'm in a good mood, which I think is most of the time, I'm gonna be pretty silly. But if I'm feeling quiet, that's it. No talking from me. I'll get to a press box two hours before a game, and if the mood strikes I'm going to sit there at my seat and read a book, and since I'm enjoying myself, I'm not going to be thrilled to be interrupted. If that makes me selfish, fine. But isn't it also selfish to interrupt me and assume that your company is more enjoyable than whatever it is I'm doing? I don't know. I'm weird. Whatever you do, do not break the ice with a vague "what's up?" Hell, I don't know what's up. You're the one talking to me. You tell me what's up, or I'm going back to my book. And with that, I've just given assholery a bad name.

You, like Mr. Daulerio over here, are a graduate of La Salle. How about that football team?

They don’t have a team now. They weren’t very good. It’s probably for the best.

I remember a piece you wrote about the home run chase in 1998 that I loved, though history hasn’t served that time too well. You usually don’t write stories that are that timely.

That was a nice change of pace, though everyone feels differently about that time now. That’s the other side of me, having fun, doesn’t have to be all serious. That was throwing a change up. Not everything has to be all high-falutin.

Your work seems decidedly removed from the day-to-day rigors of the world of sports. Do you watch a lot of day-to-day coverage of sports? Do you watch Around The Horn?

I catch a piece of “SportsCenter” here or there, and keep my hand in a bit, but I think a certain amount of distance. I kind of have one foot in pretty deeply, and one foot out of it. I’m much more interested in the person involved than what’s actually going on. My subjects just happen to be in sports.

So much of sports reporting anymore seems based around the notion of reporters just trying to build up their own brand. (I am guilty of this as well.) But it’s rare anyone ever hears from you, and you’re never on TV. Is what you do a refutation of that?

That has its place. All this stuff has its place. Hopefully enough people will want to sit back and think and chew on something and make a connection in a more human way through what I do. But to just get on a laptop and riff on something, that has its place too. I do consider that journalism. Working in sports is a contradiction anyway, with the triviality and meaninglessness of it, reveling in that, but also be able to step away from it all and realize these people are human beings. There’s a whole palate of stuff that they go through that are the same things you and I go through every day, going through the same hopes and dreams and insecurities and anxieties. I try to touch both with my writing.

I usually hate interviewing athletes. They’re either impossibly dull, or so media coached that they just say nothing. We want athletes to say something interesting, and when they do, we punish them for it.

It’s a bizarre cyclical effect there. You can understand why they’re gunshy.

How do you get the teams to go along with your stories? You get unprecedented amounts of access.

It’s 90 percent of the battle sometimes. Everyone has to be consenting adults. Everyone has to be on board to do one of these things. I try to explain to them ahead of time that it’s going to be a lot more time-consuming than anything else you’ve done, and it’s going to be detail-driven. I try to make sure that everybody knows what they’re in for.

How often do people beg out?

It happens here and there. As soon as I feel that static, I pretty much pull away. The person has to want to be in Sports Illustrated in depth.

Particularly when you’re one of the few people who do this anymore. Have you seen Sports Illustrated recently? You’re kind of the only one. How involved are you with what goes on over there?

I pretty much operate in my own orbit. The magazine has been so good to me. I’m just lost in each of these successive worlds, the four worlds I dive into a year.

But you’ve noticed how different the magazine is now.

Definitely.

You’re pretty lucky to not have to deal with how dramatically sports coverage has changed in the last few years. You’ve at least seen what's happened.

It’s a shame. I don’t know how to stop it. Obviously, the economy is a factor, and the habits of people. I’m lucky enough, for now, to not have that effect what I do. I hope what I do, in some ways, can be more valued because there’s a need for someone to sit down with something, and feel something, rather than just the quick hits all the time. I see it happening. It’s sad. I think the interchange of what I do just wouldn’t work as well on the Web. You go to the Web for information, and quick opinion, but you’ve got your trigger finger on the scroll-down button. That’s not the place for the interchange that I’m trying to partake in.

Do you fear you’re the last of your kind, sports-wise, in a sense?

Oh, sure, it’s a fear. There are young people coming up who want to do what I do, and it’s so much harder to find a forum for it. There’s no way around that, and it’s a real shame. I feel bad that the opportunities to do this are shrinking. I think something’s being lost. I’m not detached from it.

Do you read blogs? You’ve been talking to me for 20 minutes and you haven’t gone Bissinger on me yet.

I don’t read them. If I’m researching something that takes me there, that’s when I end up looking at them. But to go and peruse them, I don’t. But I have no ax to grind with blogs. I read about the Bissinger thing, but I haven’t seen it. Actually, I just now realized that was you.

Do you think your work loses impact when it’s on the Web?

Well, what do you think? Do you think long pieces can work well on the Web? You have more experience in it than I do.

I think ESPN’s E-Ticket does a pretty good job. The Atlantic Online made David Foster Wallace’s footnotes easier to follow. But a lot of that is based in multimedia and distraction, making it easier to get through and hop around.

Yeah, that seems like it would work against what I’m trying to do. It has its place, don’t get me wrong. But for what I’m trying to do, I’m trying to keep my reader right here. Every word choice I make involves keeping the reader on a short leash, right in front of me. Anything that mitigates against that is eroding or undermining what I’m trying to do. I don’t think online is the ideal place for what I’m trying to do.

OK, last question: What did you think of the movie Radio, which was based off one of your stories?

I thought there was a danger of it being too sentimental, but when you see what becomes of most mainstream movies, having seen it, I felt somewhat relieved. It could have been a lot worse.

This whole interview process was like trying untangle the world's biggest ball of Christmas lights — especially writing the transcription. After five minutes of listening it's pretty obvious that it'll take years to straighten it out and it might be better just to plug 'em in and hope for the best. But I think it fits in that it does truly "humanize" Salisbury in a way — for better or worse — which has been part of Deadspin's m.o. since the first Kyle Orton drunk photos raced across the internet. Sean uses semantics when it comes to the "cellphone" rumor and that's the way it has to be. There are plenty of other stories floating around as to what exactly prompted his ESPN suspension in 2006 (wasn't his dick; wasn't an intern; he was ratted out, are the most talked about ones) but that is really kind of secondary to why he felt this interview needed to happen. I believe he truly wanted to attempt to clear his name from all of this (probably won't happen) but also wanted to step out from behind the two-way mirror and just let people know, ' I 'm a real, flawed person, but it really fucking sucks to be called a fetus-faced windbag.' That's a brave step for anyone to take. But I don't think he was trying to do it as a way to alter the way blog items are written about him or to change the way commentors destroy him. He'll take that stuff and not like it — but he'll learn from it too.

Anyway, on to the conclusion of this mess.

Is it fair to say that all of this stuff that has happened to you in the last two years – the death of your father, the job situation, the internet “rumors”...well, how did you work through something that emotionally?

SS: I’ve got no choice, A.J. I’m a Dad. I’ve got a 15-year-old son, a 14-year-old son, and a 12-year-old daughter. I’m single. And I’m a dad. And between my ex and I living close to each other and trying to manage things with kids and going to sporting events and a soccer mom…— believe me: the most exciting part of my life is when Adam Sandler lets me play in his movies every once in a while or watching my kids play sports. I don’t do much. But I’m telling you – my life the last two years, A.J. with my dad’s death, with an assistant of mine that I trusted my life with who stole six-figures from me, while my dad is dying so I didn’t know about it until after they were gone, to changing jobs after 12 years with a company that I loved that I had some of the best friends in the world at, it was a great company and an unbelievable sports business. I can’t remember from 2006 to a little after March of this year and …
No doubt the last two years have changed my life and have also changed the way I look at things, but they have also been the two most miserable years of my life. And I’ve lived a charmed life, man. They say it comes in threes, but mine came in about 8’s. A lot of my friends have been supportive and I’ll recover from this and with my new start at OPENsports which I think, and not just because I’m a part of it, I think it’ll be innovative, technologically – you’ve gone on some of it—we’lll have some quality, quality stuff on blogs and on video and I’ll be on every day doing it and expand on things and I’m just blessed to be a part of it and get paid to do something I love. And this is my first venture hard into the internet, which to be honest with you, the reason I haven’t taken a radio or TV job, yes, I’m waiting for the perfect one and a lot of them are taken, I’m really content right now doing this and I think it’s going to be a fun season, I’m giving inside information that people aren’t going to get because of the relationships that I have, just like your relationships, and hopefully we can make OPEN Sports the best in the business. I don’t like second or third place – I’ve done that enough when I was a quarterback. With my background and the people in OPEN Sports if people want the best information they’re going to get that—hard-hitting sports information and it’s going to allow the people to be involved which I like. I need another John Clayton with me, buddy and I think we’re going to blow this thing up.

And to mention, I’d like to put this out there: A.J., the most asked question I’ve had in my life or the last 12 years is “Do you like John Clayton?” And you know what, since 1986 when I was a rookie and John was a beat writer covering the Seahawks, John Clayton has been one of the closest to me. I’ve known him longer than anyone at ESPN. And all of that stuff we did was not scripted. Most of the time our 4-down segment was…we’d give ‘em our answers they’d ask us 20 questions during the day, they’d surprise us when we were going to go on. We loved each other walking to work, we’d go on there and try to beat each other’s brains out just like you would with your friends in a one-on-one pick up game. Never once were John and I offended by each other. That’s business. And we had a blast doing it. And I can guarantee you 4-downs – and I mean this with as much love for John Clayton—it’ll never be the same. Just like the old SportsCenters. You can never do what Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann did. This might be a pat on the back for John and I but I’m going to say it anyway: 4-Downs will never be the same. Period. Just like at PTI if Tony and Mike retire? You ain’t getting another PTI like Tony and Mike ran it. So, I was fortunate to be a part of that. I love John Clayton. People need to know that. Those arguments and stuff weren’t fake, but off the air…one of the first two people that called me when I left ESPN was John Clayton. So, I miss those guys and I’m fortunate that I learned a lot and to get the degree I got from ESPN was pretty damn good, but now I’m moving on to the doctorate because I’m not real good with the internet.

Yeah, obviously.

…And OPENsports is going to open up a can of worms that people are going to love.

Well, not to get all squishy on you…but can you tell at this point in your career…just how reflective you are you being about all this stuff? Did you always have this in you? Or was this a formal process you had to go through to get to that softer side in order for you to contine?

Well, I’ve always had it, but you know what, A.J.? Those guys that are supposed to have an ego and macho and pride and all that – and God knows I have an ego just like the rest of us – anybody who’s an athlete, and hey I wasn’t a great athlete — or a journalist, or who goes on TV...hey we got egos. When we go on TV we want to look good and wear the right suit. So yeah, I’ve been reflective. I never felt the grass was greener. I may come across like that because I’ve got an explosive personality or because I’m opinionated. People will meet you and a lot of people will tell me that I can be a completely different guy off the air. I read two books a week. I sit in bed and read more than anything. If you walked into my house and in my bedroom I’ve got 100 books that I’ve read. And so I’m not as dumb as I look or as I sound. So, yeah, I’m probably a little bit more reflective because there have been things that have been snatched from me: PRIVACY. And things that I’ve snatched away from myself, moving on from a secure comfortable career and a great place at ESPN. I’ve gone out on a limb just to make a change, but I believe in it. And I believe in my skills. And I also believe in the people around me and the support group I’ve had. I’m more reflective now….or should I say…I’m a more calculated thinker. Because I’ve been damaged, and for a while there my reputation was damaged by some – not by all, the ones who know me or the ones who were close to the situation get it and know that wasn’t the case – and you know comebacks are always awesome. I’ve only been away from five or six months but I’m going to come back in full force and it’s going to be hopefully great stuff and I’m not going to give you guys anything to write negative about me except hopefully my opinion or something I said about the New York Jets.

Now that you’re fully aware of that atmosphere that exists online—whether it be us or somebody else – you’re putting yourself out there now, almost asking for scrutiny in one aspect, but you’re also saying , essentially, okay, “I’m not going to be out at a bar drinking right now.” Is that something you’re comfortable with? Or is that a complete lifestyle change?

I’m not afraid of criticism. I put myself out there. What athlete in college or professional sports – or who sacrifices vacations to put themselves in professional sports – doesn’t put something out there for criticism. Every time you line up behind center you’re putting yourself out there for criticism. Every time you put something on the air, or I put something on the air. You gotta be able to take the criticism. But you take the positive stuff but you also have to be able to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer. I don’t have a problem with that. We’re all sensitive. If everybody was saying something good about me? About my talent or what I did? I’m not doing my job. That means I’m sitting on the fence the whole time and people would turn the channel. The best people in this business, the Howie Longs, the Terry Bradshaws, the Troy Aikmans, they’re what we call “needle movers”, man. I’ve tried to pride myself on that. Dan Patrick was a needle mover. Tony and Mike Wilbon. Those guys are needle movers. I’m not trying to say bad about some guy’s personal life…hey, if a guy throws five interceptions, he sucked that day! It’s nothing personal. You suck that day. Some days we all suck. Heck, some of us more than others. I don’t have a problem with putting myself out there because this is what I do. If I was scared I’d have a bunch of dogs around me. And as far as socializing? I’m a single guy…I’m allowed to go out to a sushi place and if I’m sitting around with my buddies having sushi, I’m allowed to do that. It’s not like I’m going to hide out. I’m not going to do that! Let’s say you and I are hanging out on a Saturday night and we’re watching college football and LSU plays Georgia, Georgia at LSU, and we’re sitting in a college bar eating chicken wings and somebody wants to write something about it? LET ‘EM. I don’t care about that. I’m not going to be peeing off of some roof or doing those things. I’ll try to do the right thing like I always do and try not to do something dumb, which is what I think everyone of us when we leave the house tries to do or when I go on the air and try to say the right thing….on my separation…cause I work hard. I’m not afraid to put myself out there. My life revolves around putting myself out there. And if I’m going to criticize players I sure as hell better be able to take it if somebody wants to criticize me if they don’t like my broadcasting. Because you know what? At least I have the guts and the balls to go out and do it and will continue to do it. But it has changed my perspective, you’re head is always on a swivel, wondering which one of these 10,000 people is looking for a reason to bait you into a fight so they can punch you in the mouth so they can sue you.

For the record, I wasn’t planning on doing that…Do you think your ESPN career has hurt you in some way? They’re the biggest in the industry and making that transition onto something else is not always a smooth one. There are not that many Dan Patrick jobs out there….

There’s not a lot of those gigs out there. But you know what? There were not a lot of those out there when I got mine in the first place. I got two sideline games 12 years ago and I had to prove myself after playing football making a $1,000 or $1,500 a game. And I was not the superstar, Hall Of Fame quarterback or running back that walked off the field and into a studio and they gave him a job because you had to give him a job. I wasn’t that guy. I can tell you this, I had a lot of great help around me and a lot of unbelievable production people, but I put in my time. I served my time. Whether people want to believe it or not, I spent 12 years being as good as there was on TV doing what I do. And that’s being a football analyst. And I know what I am and what I am not. Howie, Terry…you know, I may not be in their class name-wise, but you want to talk about information, opinion, passion, I do it as well as anybody. My career at ESPN didn’t hurt me, some of the “rumors” did – or should I say “the rumor” the “alleged” cellphone thing. But as far as what I put on the air? I’ll put my stuff against anybody. Because you know what? I based my opinion on facts I received from coaches, players, and insights. You know what the problem is with 80% of the analysts out there? They’re afraid that the depth of their opinion will hurt somebody’s feelings. You know what? I’m not. I’ve had to criticize guys that I hang out with in the off-season. Hey, that’s just life. My career at ESPN did nothing but help. They gave me a forum – a foundation—now am I going to get back from it…are there many jobs out there at NBC or CBS? Nope. But I’ll get one of those. Because when network’s start to realize that Hall of Fame quarterbacks, or running backs, or wide receivers, they’ll always make the best broadcasters, God already knows there’s a whole bunch of them that weren’t any good and aren’t good, okay. But that being said, they always get ‘em. They always get the insight. But what people start to realize if a guy gets a job because of who “he was” he probably won’t keep that job because he won’t work hard enough to do it. The Howie Longs, the Terry Bradshaws, the Chris Collinsworths…there’s a reason why they keep ‘em….the Tommy Jacksons…but I tell you this I’ll put myself up against anybody. And I wasn’t a Hall of Fame quarterback, but I can promise you this, there’s no guy that’s coming out now that’s going to put better work on there than mine...

At any point during while this stuff was going down [the suspension, the rumors] did you feel like your job was in jeopardy? Did you see the writing on the wall or were you blindsided?

You know what, when I went in there the last time before I left, A.J., the day I shook hands with the two executives and left and we decided that they weren’t going to renew my contract and I was ready to move on. I actually thought I was going in at least a couple of days before that. I knew when I went in for that meeting that I thought I was going to leave, but the week before that I thought I was going to have a promotion. Oh, I knew there was a chance that they weren’t going to renew the contract. But Im’ not changing who I am on the air. Blindsided? No. If you would’ve told me that in February? No. I think we all wonder about when our contract comes up – am I going to get paid? Do they want me back? –I think there’s an insecurity that goes with it. I don’t know how to do much, but I know what I’m doing on TV, and radio, and on the internet in talking about football and this is what I do and will continue to do it’s just a matter of where I end up…with OPEN Sports which I’m going to be at for a long time…but if there’s any radio or TV outside of what I’m doing with them…No, I wouldn’t say I was blindsided. I there was a part of me that thought it could happen and when it did happen it was alarming because, man, 12 years? But I picked up and left and moved on an didn’t say anything negative and will continue not to. I couldn’t be somebody else giving my opinion on TV. If you want vanilla, you want the wrong guy. There are plenty of guys out there that aren’t going to tell you shit.

But the incident is a huge cross to bear, no? Any place you go, people are going to ask what happened at ESPN? They'll ask themselves "Is there going to be a problem? And "Why should we put you on the air again?"

They could ask! You know, people are out there raping and abusing and doing all that stuff, you know... I DIDN’T DO ANYTHING! If you do your due diligence and want the truth, I have it, man. That was 2006! I’m not a risk. If I did anything wrong …if something like that happened…why wouldn’t they fire me on the spot? I worked two more years. So, I worked for 12 years and my resume speaks for itself. Now, has there been some damaging rumors, some damaging info that’s been out there, some setbacks? Yes. Now, bullets have been flying for two years at me. And you know what? I never pointed the finger at another person and I take responsibility when I make a mistake. But I also know when I need to defend myself when I need to, especially when it’s a LIE. If somebody wants to go vanilla, and they want vanilla, and are there some people out there who won’t hire me because they think I’m too opinionated...sure. Hey, think about some of the people in sports and in broadcasting. You know, eventually things go away, and what I “allegedly” did is completely G-rated because it wasn’t there in the first place, but number 2….I’m not stupid enough to do something like that, but I know it’s going to be out there. You know what? Three years I’m going to continue to work on this…I’m no risk. I don’t do drugs. I don’t do anything. I don’t abuse kids. I don’t hit women. I raise money for charity and I’m a dad. So, I’m not worried about it. It’s damaged me a little bit right now, but during this process I’ve discovered a company that I love in Open Sports. I’m happier in my broadcast career than I’ve been in 10 years.

That’s what’s surprising too and this is just my and plenty of other people’s opinions…but you put a guy like Emmitt Smith on the air who seems …not ready. He’s not articulating as well as he possibly could..and on air just for the sole fact that he’s a Hall of Fame running back he gets his job. We’re supposed to take his word on things over somebody like you…who basically has been doing this for a longtime. Is there some notion at ESPN that people want to see people that they recogn…

Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s the reason I worked on NFL Live for 11 years and never did Countdown at 11. There’s no question. There’s no doubt. If you’re a Hall of Famer or a big-time player, you will get the first-look. They will move somebody out for a guy, just because he’s got a name. And I can tell you as a broadcast fan—forget me being on TV – just as a fan, you and I are sitting around, in about two broadcasts I can tell you whether a guy sucks or not. I worked with Emmitt at the Super Bowl and I love Emmitt. Is he a better running back than he is a broadcaster? Absolutely. That’s just like saying am I a better broadcaster than a quarterback? Not even close. Emmitt’s getting better. The thing is, they will always put that guy on before they put a guy on that’s been there that’s just the nature of the business, but I got news for you: eventually that’s going to have to come to a close because the guys that give you their best information and opinion are the ones the fans want to see. We’ll take a backseat for a while but eventually the cream rises and eventually you put the guys in there you’re supposed to. ESPN likes star power and that’s okay. But you know what? They can’t replace a guy like Tommy Jackson who in my opinion is the best they got there and has been great for a long time.

Is there anything else that you’d like get off your chest…?

No, man. I just thank you and appreciate it. Thank you for allowing me after two years, you’re the first people that I’ve told this to. All I want to do is put it behind me and focus on football and having fun and doing my job at OPEN Sports. I’m excited and I think if you get it out there the people will like it and you know what A.J.? We all go through some adversity. I blew out my knee twice as a football player and didn’t get drafted but fortunately I was able to fool ‘em 10 years and play. Now, you know what? Temporary setback. I’m just a normal guy, man. When people hang around me they’ll find out “Man, this is the guy that used to go out and watch football with 8 strangers off the street?" I’m not comfortable wit the fact that people actually think I’m a star. I’m not a star. Just a guy who talks football who I hope provides good information. I miss ESPN but I’m excited about the next venture more than I could ever imagine.And you know what? I don’t have any bitterness. ESPN’s not going away, but I’m not either.

So you’re not angry. Okay.

No, I’m not going away. Is there a part of me that’s been angry through the process? YEAH. You go through all of these thoughts. Do you feel sorry for yourself? You’re bitter...You have to convince yourself...You’re insecure...You’re confident....You’re humble....You’re…mad. You go through all of those. But you know what? I’m not angry anymore. People always say that when one window or door closes another one opens? I’ve discovered something in the last five months that I realize that it’s okay not to work 18 hours per day, 7 days a week. And this was a favor for me. It actually turned out to be a blessing. I’ve always been close to my kids but I’ve had the time of my life the last five months and it actually makes it very difficult to go back to work. But I have to because I have bills to pay and a family to feed but it’s been one hell of run, man, and I’m about to start the next phase and get it going and put the nonsense behind me and there are always going to be people out there that believe what they want to believe, but I’ll tell you this: this story is over and you guys will be the ones that get the message out there. I don’t need to explain myself anymore and dignify it. I got it to you and I’m going to leave it at that.

Well, alright…

Read Part I

He admits in the interview that the last two years have been the "most miserable" ones of his life: the death of his father, the suspension at ESPN, not having his contract renewed at ESPN last March, and, of course, those stories ("rumors...lies!")about him on the internet a lot of which had originated or were trumpeted by Deadspin. (There's a reason why Sean Salisbury was a Deadspin Hall of Fame nominee last year — not for good reasons, either.)

Due to its length it will be broken up into two parts. The second one will run tomorrow. It is edited for clarity and brevity, but not as much as either one of us or you, frankly, would like. But it doesn't feel right to present it any other way.

Part one, after the jump.

So….how are you?

SS: I’m…great. Probably since about last March, I’ve not worked much but it’s been a changing part of my life, A.J. When I left ESPN and I decided – and they decided – we’re both going different directions…you know, when you leave something like that there’s going to be an empty place because for 12 years I was with a company and I loved the people I worked with and worked for. They gave me a platform . For a guy that was an average quarterback, to be a broadcaster for 12 years…whenever you do something for 12 years whether it’s marriage, or job, or family you’re drawn to it. So those people treated me great and I have no qualms about leaving it, at the time I needed to do some other things. But these last five months for me have probably been as peaceful as I have had in a long time. And this is the longest I’ve been without work for a while so it was time to go back and get a job. And fortunately with OPENSports, I’ve got the beginning of something special and this is something I’ve been looking forward to for a long time.

Good. Was there a part of you that did want to leave ESPN? Was it time to go?

[T]here’s a part of me that wanted to stay at ESPN. And yes there was a part of me that wanted to go. And ESPN has been so good and so dominant and they’re all-encompassing: When you’re with ESPN, you’re an ESPN guy. I get it. The ESPN brand is as big as any brand on the planet right now, especially the sports planet. So, yeah there was a part of me that wanted to stay there. But I also know that after 12 years, financially, if you’ve worked as many hours as I have as a broadcaster — and what I’d like to think according to them was a productive 12 years — you want to get paid like it. But that’s not the main reason…it was time for me to head out. You know, I got my undergraduate degree at ESPN and I need an MBA and a doctorate and that’s what I’m working toward. They were awesome to me. And they wanted to go in a different direction and it wasn’t just me it was my contract was up, they honored the contract, and they decided to go in a different direction and so was I and so did they. And I’m okay with that, they’ve got good people there…It hurts to leave something that you’ve been doing for a long time but I also know in order for me to branch out and challenge myself I need a new challenge and so did they. No hard feelings. There’s part of me that wakes up every morning and says “Huh. It’d be nice to be there.” But I’ve never found myself more excited in the past 8-10 years to be doing something new and I think here at OPENsports with the innovation that we have we’re going to make it the best in the business. I’m just a mouthpiece for it. The people behind the scenes make it go and I’ll just talk opinionated football and give them good stuff and hope that in return that validates why we’re on the air.

There was all of this rumor and speculation about why you left ESPN. One of the main things was that you (supposedly) took a picture of your genitals on your cellphone and showed it around to interns. I’m sure you’ve heard those rumors before. Anything about them remotely true?

I’ve heard ‘em. I’ve lived ‘em for two years. There’s a lot of bald-faced lies in there. I don’t have to do a lie detector, but the truth of the matter is, I would. It changed my life, man. What was said. It was hurtful. The “alleged” cellphone incident took place in 2006 “supposedly.” When someone comes up to your kid at school and asks them about it because they’ve Googled your name and it’s lies and it’s not true…It’s changed me, A.J. And my feelings have been hurt. We’ve all done silly things, but I can tell you now – and I’ll make this real clear and to the point: One, the reason I haven’t addressed it in two years is because I wouldn’t want to throw other people under the bus and I wouldn’t want to shock the world. And number two is, I’m a team guy who’s always protected the guy next to me and will continue to do it. Number three is, I haven’t addressed it because it’s so absurd and such a bald-faced lie from what the speculation is out there from media outlets, and internet and bloggers that hop on and want to beat you up because they don’t like my opinion in football. It NEVER happened. And I have written proof at my house on an ESPN document that states that it didn’t happen. And, A.j. …let’s think about this now: What in the world would anybody stupid enough…first of all, I wouldn’t know the difference between an intern and a p.a. I know they’re more talented than I am. And they make everybody at ESPN sound better and look better. And they’re the true heroes. If you want to get mad at me for catering Monday Night Football food for the p.a.’s and the camera people and the production people so they could have something to eat on Monday night? I’m guilty of that. The other thing…a bald-faced lie. I have the written proof. Plus, at that time at a Disney company? Who would be nuts enough to do that? And anybody else, you too, would’ve been fired on the spot. I worked two more years. My departure at ESPN had nothing to do with that. As for speculation, they can say whatever they want, but I can tell you now, written proof, it never happened, and you’re the first people I’ve spoken to publicly about this. It hurt me. It caused me some problems with other people employment-wise when I was looking for something. It’s caused me some heartache because people look at me and say “Hey, did that really happen?” And the sad thing about it is, we all do fraternity pranks from the time when we’re 10-year-olds until when we’re adults because we’re all kids. But that never happened. The way it was described was complete lie and I have proof. And I have verbal proof from ESPN but they didn’t want to open up a Pandora’s Box for legal issues. All I wanted was to clear my name. And I have proof and it’s written proof from them and I can tell you now that it never happened. I wish …for my family’s sake…

I’m a pretty boring guy. I get way too much credit. Single, yes. Hey, who doesn’t go on a date? But I’m a pretty boring guy. I raise three kids and I sit at home and I get teared up when I watch Michael Phelps win at the Olympics…and I know that sounds corny but it’s true…

Yeah, that really sounds corny…

SS: There’s not enough time in the day.... It’s not true. It never was true. It wasn’t an issue then. It’s not an issue now. It will never be an issue. Unfortunately, people jump onto something that is so blatantly wrong, that you suffer the punishment for it…You know, I sit here and I kid about it, but you know what? It’s actually changed my life and has hurt me — the things that have been said about me the last couple years. That’s not me..

But do you have any clue as to where something like that would originate from? Obviously, you know, we have heard things. We’ve gotten clarifications on it. When it happened. Why it happened. Do you know what story it originated from to get to that point?

SS: I can tell you this. I know for a fact the situation that was going on before me with my friend Harold Reynolds and, you know....I’m not going to get into here or there what happened with that. I’m not privy to “he said/she said.” What I am privy to is that I know for a fact that in 12 years I was never in a human resources meeting until then. And I never, ever, ever, EVER, would have been in that meeting room, as was told to me, for the unfortunate circumstances around the legal part with what was going on with Harold. Had that not occurred, I would not have been in that office, as told to me by the person that was in that office.

But because of …

And , you know why, A.J.? And let me ask you this. You know, people say “sources.” There’s never been a an executive at ESPN or inside ESPN human resources that has ever come out – and I’m DEFENDING ESPN on this part, I’m not throwing them under the bus – nobody has come out from ESPN and said, “Yep, this happened, that happened. He did this…” Nobody’s ever done that. And I love the way John Skipper and George Bodenheimer run that company. I love Mark Shapiro. But nobody’s ever come out and said , this, this and this …so it’s all be speculation. And “sources” that said this, to this, to this, to this, to this. And if that’s the case, then we get a source that says everybody’s gay in Hollywood and that Britney Spears has a three-headed baby…come on! We’ve all done silly things, but I guarantee you I never did anything that silly nor would I. And you can get all the “sources” you want and they’ll speculate and they’ll come out of the woodwork. And, yeah, that’s right, I was the King of England and won the Heisman trophy.

Well, you were the king in Canada at one point, let’s not forget that…

That was a very, very quick point. Same as my career in the NFL. 10 years but easily forgotten. I have nothing but great things to say about ESPN because of the opportunity they gave me. It’s not them, it’s people out there that I think at times are irresponsible. That’s why there’s no pictures out there, there’s no nothing. That’s why in 12 years if people want to speculate about it and say that’s the worst thing that I’ve done….well. I don’t beat people, I raise my kids, I raise money for charities, I try to do the right thing with a lot of good help. I’m a normal guy that’s trying to carve out a living that got actually hoodwinked on something that he shouldn’t have because I wouldn’t throw other people under the bus.

So you feel like you were the fall guy? That you’re paying for other people’s sins?

Hey, I’m not perfect. As far as that one situation? Do I think that the suspension should have happened? Absolutely not. Was I suspended for “other stuff” than what other people speculate about? In my mind, yes. I can guarantee you, I know for a fact, had other situations surrounding that not had happened – I don’t know if I’d still be at ESPN because that was two years ago and I should have been long gone and somebody put legs on it. That had nothing to do with according to them and me with me leaving ESPN…they wanted something else and they could get somebody cheaper and maybe they thought they could get somebody better. That’s okay too. There are people who may think they’re better. That’s their right. They do the hiring.

But never once was that a problem for why I left or anything else. The last two years have been very, very…you know we try to be tough guys and stuff. But the last two years have been very gut-wrenching for me because I don’t lead that life, and like I said – I’m not perfect. But when you say “fall guy” for somebody else? I wouldn’t say I was a “fall guy” for somebody else. But I definitely protected other people. And I know darn well that I wouldn’t have been in that situation had it not been for a couple of other situations surrounding that company. I was a good person to use.

Isn’t that a popular party line — that there’s so much hypocrisy at ESPN, not with your situation specifically, but when Harold’s situation came up – that the talent is getting reprimanded and suspended for things even though that plenty of the executive level people are engaging in similar behavior — fostering the same type of “relationships”.

Oh, there’s no question. I think that happens at any company or at any walk of life, I think there’s hypocrisy everywhere. Again —- I’m not he said/she said. I love Harold Reynolds and I know Baseball Tonight isn’t the same without him and there’s some good people out there. I’m not going on anything other people said – I never saw anything like that happen. You try to walk down the hallway with blinders on, you’ve got to protect the other people. Do I think there’s hypocrisy and you could look at it and say Harold Reynolds shouldn’t have been fired? Absolutely. Now, I’m not saying anything as far as the people who had the complaints about him – I don’t know. I’d be a liar if I said I was privy to inside human resources information because anytime human resources releases something on somebody and gives a source out they’re liable to have themselves sued. I don’t have any inside information, I didn’t talk to Harold about it because you know what, he’s moving forward and he’s going to carve out a good career. It’s unfortunate that stuff like that happens. Do I think there’s a hypocrisy? Yeah. Because you crawl up the ladder and down the ladder at ESPN and there’s plenty of stuff going on that nobody hears about. It’s unfortunate for Harold. And I like the fact that he’s just done his business. [He's] minded his own business, and he could put it behind him. The Harold Reynolds I know was a man who did his job and was friendly. At times if you smiled at somebody they’d take it wrong, but I don’t know the inside stuff. But do I think there’s hypocrisy out there? No question.

But do you think the reputation that ESPN talent have for promoting a frat-house type atmosphere had something to do with the way the company just started singling people out? Do you think they were trying to change the morale ?

If you look at some of the coverage right now, it’s a lot more vanilla than I’m used to watching. As far as a fraternity atmosphere, that’s complete B.S. You’re sitting in a news room. What’s a fraternity atmosphere? John Kruk and I sitting and talking about baseball? You know what? You’re in the TV business. You’re in the production business. Those production people are working 12,14, 16, 18 hours a day and don’t get paid that much to put something unbelievable on TV. People are going to cuss. People are going to say something in the heat of the battle. People are going to get into an argument with a producer like I have. Somebody’s going to tell a dirty joke and somebody’s going to laugh at it. And then there’s another party that’s going to get offended. Are you KIDDING me? I hope that someday you get a chance to walk into the newsroom at ESPN and see. Our Christmas Party – for the most part – was never a fraternity-like atmosphere. You know when you go into a locker room, A.J.? You have to be respectful of people. You’re not going to touch people inappropriately, you’re not going to say something inappropriately or at least try not to. You’re going to do everything possible to provide a safe, comfortable environment for everybody. But you know you’ll walk into a locker room sometimes and you’ll have a really religious guy sitting next to a guy who was single sitting next to a married guy …and you know what somebody may want to tell a dirty joke? You don’t want to hear it? Get up and move! Things are going to happen, but I’ve always believed that if somebody is saying something to you…go to the source. You know if you have a problem with some guy saying something to you in the news room? There’s no reason to run upstairs. Why? Now, if they’re offending you inappropriately I can understand that. That’s called business and respect. The same way I raise my daughter and my children. Or my mother was being talked to. Or my sister. You know what? People all going to laugh at dirty jokes and we all have. ESPN runs a tight ship. Before me and they always have. There’s always going to be people who’ve done something wrong, who have to go to a meeting with their boss and then there’s going to always be people who do the perfect stuff. And there’s nobody in between. I think the way ESPN handles the atmosphere, the newsroom—some people mess up, some don’t, some are bigger than others , some aren’t– but I can tell you this it’s nothing like a fraternity atmosphere. I’d almost go to the other side and say because it’s become so…”Oh My Gosh!” that I don’t think there is as much morale there as should be. And that’s not saying anything against the people that are there. They’re so afraid to even smile at somebody or tell somebody they have a nice tie on or your hair looks pretty, you have to think “Oh my gosh, what if that person takes it wrong?” Whether it’s male or female. Fraternity-like? No. I was blessed for 12 years to work with guys like John Skipper and George Bodenheimer of creating unbelievable business. But also, you know when you’ve crossed the line. We’ve all done it at some point in our life. You know, when you tell a dirty joke and you’re like “Oh my gosh why did I do that?”

So my impressions of you in Miami as being this big ladies man were a little off.

Let’s back up. I’m single. In that picture you don’t see me drunk. I won’t ever let anyone take a picture of me with alcohol I won’t let that happen because it’s a bad example for the kids. I won’t even get a glass of water in my hands in some photos. The other side of it is, I’m honored that you thought I was that much of a ladies man because at that party people were coming up to and talking to me, it is the Super Bowl. Just like the World Series, just like the Olympics, people know who you are…I’m not even a star, A.J. I’m surprised you even wanted a picture. I devalued you. But if an attractive lady comes up to me and I’m single, shoot, why wouldn’t …

But I think I described you as having that ex-athlete air about you—that swagger – that draws people in…

The swagger, I take that as a compliment. But it doesn’t matter what religion, race, tall, short, if a kid wants an autograph or somebody wants a picture…I treat everyone the same. Now. Am I honored that you think women like me? Am I single am I allowed to go on a date? Yeah. I’m all of those things. To say I’m a ladies man? I don’t know about that. I think there’s a perception about any athlete. If you smile and laugh and joke with people then they’re like “he can get any lady he wants.” If that were the case, then I’d be seeing if you could set me up with Eva Mendes.

I see you in a room with Irvin, Stuart Scott, Alex Brown from the Chicago Bears who’s playing in the Super Bowl that year and I don’t see as many people talking to them. Irvin is a star, Stu Scott’s a star, yet I don’t see as many ladies around them...

Maybe they felt sorry for me, A.J.

I don’t think that was the case. I think you pull it. I think you’re sandbagging me here.

I don’t have that much game. Irvin, superstar, great guy. Stu Scott, talented guy, he’s won many Emmys and then….It’s like Sesame Street. "One of These Things is Not Like the Other"? Then there’s Sean. I’d like to say it was my ruggedly handsome good looks and my charming personality. I just think we were at a small place and there were people around, it was after Sports Center, and we go over there and are trying to help a guy out. Put it this way: I had a good time and had a lot of laughs. Nobody hates eye candy and I just wish I was a little more of it.

The next day.... I think both of our lives changed in some aspect. Did you know what was happening? Did you have conversations with Stu Scott the next day? Because even I didn’t know how viral it had become because I was running around like an idiot most of the time.

That’s okay you had a lot of parties and a lot of people to take pictures with, buddy. Let me be totally honest with you: yeah, my life changed. My dad died. I lost my hero, my best friend, so you go through difficult times. Then in March I changed jobs and looking for another part of my career. But going back to that, A.j., I don’t care if people write that they disagree with my opinions and they hate you, I actually love that — because they’re still watching and they’re listening because they love to hate you. And there’s some people that like you or there’s some people that are on the fence. I’m not usually a guy who’s on the fence. That’s okay. That’s how I carved a niche. I work hard and I prepare and I will not miss one game of the entire season and I’ll have 9-10 TVs and DVR and watch every single game until the season’s over. I’m just doing my job. It’s just when it crosses over...

Like, I said I don’t get arrested, I try to be a good dad…we all have our weaknesses. And yeah, we’re supposed to be macho and hard-asses about it…but you know what? It CRUSHED me to read some of the things that were said about it. And it hurts me. And Stuart Scott? The text message and stuff? It hurts him. He’s got a family and stuff. And the truth of the matter was it wasn’t true. The person he was talking to [Michelle Beisner] was actually a great friend of both of ours who actually comes to my golf tournament and volunteers her time to raise money for kids to go to college. And it’s those times where people speculate on things, which is unfortunate, and yeah we’ll say it doesn’t matter, but it’s like going into a stadium and being booed. Nobody likes to be booed. So the tough guy image…[trails off, catches breath.]

So yeah, my life has changed. I don’t socialize like I used to. When I go to colleges and stuff I’m very cognizant of the fact that there are people out there to hurt you. But I’ve been very blessed man. I really have. And this isn’t a woe-is-me. I’ve screwed up plenty of times. I was married 17 years and when you fail at marriage you sometimes feel that you failed at life. And I know that. And I’m trying to be better. But one thing I do know is that even if there is a small portion of people that believe stuff that’s on a website or the cellphone thing which I told you DID NOT happen…you can create anything. Heck, I’ve even had people say I was a good quarterback so you KNOW people lie. But this is not woe-is-me. If I never worked again, well, I played 10 years of professional football, I was raised by an awesome family and I’ve been working in the broadcast business for 12 years which quite frankly if anybody tells you different — we work hard, but my dad was a blue collar guy — we’re stealing money. We’re talking about sports which you and I could do on a Saturday sitting around. I go to college games not because I’m covering them but because I like it. I’m blessed. 99% of the people that come up to me – even though they may rip you while you’re on air – they treat me great. Then there’s that one percent that says, “Hey, I heard you did this…” Of course it’s hurtful. But I’ve been very blessed and I can overlook the negative and – I’m being honest now—I don’t have a whole lot of complaints about the way I’ve been treated. The thing is people are entitled to their opinion and most of ‘em are classy and handle themselves well and the ones that don’t? I don’t have any answers for them anyway.

Tomorrow...part II: On John Clayton, his role as a broadcaster, and more and more of what it was like to be the" ESPN guy that sent his junk around on a cellphone" for so long.

Tony Bruno is/was one of the most popular sports talk radio host in the country, but he's yet to find work since leaving The Sporting News Radio network last January. Bruno's worked everywhere from ESPN, to Fox News, after getting his start as an up-and-coming Philadelphia radio host at a local station. Yet, now, with national sports radio shows becoming less and less available thanks to the dominance of the Jim Romes, the Dan Patricks chewing up all the real estate, he's well aware that he probably won't be making the big-shit dollars that he's used to. Right now, he can be heard in 30 minute stints on KNBR in San Francisco from 10 a.m. to 10:30 Pacific.

Bruno spoke to me via phone from LA about the state of the industry, his frustrations, his fears, and the possibility of where and when he'll land next.

DS: The sports radio industry seems like it’s being scrutinized the same way that blogs are. Do you think that’s fair?

TB: I don’t know if sports radio is better or worse than it was 10 years ago, a lot of it’s good, a lot of it’s crap. It depends on the company that hires the people to do it. I worked at ESPN for 8 years, back then it wasn’t as tenuous as it is now — you could pretty much do whatever you wanted as long as you weren’t irresponsible. You’re dealing with Disney. This Mark Madden situation, he’s dealing with Disney. Disney’s not going to tolerate that kind of commentary — now you’re going to be held accountable for dumb comments on the air. Back in the day, you never saw that. Now working with Disney, and you’ve got people calling in, and people micro-managing people to make sure they’re not politically incorrect and you’ve got the PC police out there scrutinizing everything you say…I mean, you can use humor and be funny and make a comment that might be a little off-color, but it depends on how many people complain. You can say something really, really ridiculous and if nobody hears anything important, you get away with it. Or you can say something that’s not as ridiculous and 50 people call up and complain and management says “Oh, we’ve got to do something about this.” I think that’s the difference. I don’t think the business has changed – I think the corporate structure of the business has changed. We’ve pretty much regressed on what we’re allowed to do, but I also think there are a lot of people on the air right now who are very irresponsible, who don’t know the difference between being funny and being irresponsible. You have a lot of hosts who don’t know where the line is anymore.

Isn’t that line arbitrary though? Nobody knows where it is. Don’t you think that’s dictated by the audience that the host creates? You’ve never been much of a “shock” guy, but you delve into the t-and-a stuff pretty heavily.

Because I know that sports radio, for the most part, is listened to by males. And people will be like, well, “Why do you talk about porn?” A lot of people like porn. I don’t like it , personally, but I get porn sent to me every month. I’ve got cases of it and I usually give it away to friends. I’m not hypocrite – I like sex, I like hot chicks, just like every other guy does, but I don’t have an agenda to promote the porn cause, you know? The girls would call me, I’d put them on the air, we’d have some fun – porn stars making football picks. I never did that at ESPN because they would never allow that stuff. We all have to know where the line is before we go on the air.

Are there any topics that you just won’t touch because it’s too much of a risk?

No, I’ll talk about anything. I’ve been doing this half-hour thing on KNBR – it’s my only job right now – for 10 years, I do it every morning from 10-10:30 Pacific. We go on the air, we have no scripts, we don’t even have an idea what we’re going to talk about . We just roll with stuff. We’ll talk about the NBA Finals and then we’ll move on to something stupid – music, or politics. The biggest problem with sports radio as I see it is – something that I’ve always been able to do differently – is if you keep talking about hardcore sports, you’re really, really limiting self to the people who are going to listen. That kind of radio, while it works in New York and Philly and some other shows, you’ve got to mix some entertainment in. That’s what you hear on radio now: you’ve got guys who are trying to be entertainers with very limited sports knowledge, then you’ve got guys with no entertainment knowledge who are just sports geeks trying to impress people with their sports knowledge. It’s all over the place. Depends on where you live, there’s no one set rule on what works and what doesn’t. It’s just what the audience will tolerate.

In the past year, you’ve got Dan Patrick moving over to SI to essentially be a radio host. ESPN has Scott Van Pelt doing a radio show now and I’m assuming he’s not getting paid in tissues. These guys really don’t have the pedigree in sports radio that you do, but is it helpful to you that this kind of money is being thrown around now? Or does it hurt you because you really haven’t been a SportsCenter anchor at one point in your career?

When you look around nationally syndicated shows, there are maybe four or five names in this entire industry – and I’m not blowing my own horn, I’ve been told I was one of the top three guys in the country that do this. There’s [Jim] Rome obviously, and Dan Patrick. But Dan’s primarily a TV guy and somebody approached him about leaving ESPN last year and he was smart. He became a brand name. ESPN’s a brand name and I think Dan took advantage of the situation where somebody came to him and said “Hey, listen. You’re a brand name and we want to give you your own show, you’ll be away from that whole Disney/ESPN micro-managing style and you get to do your own thing. And ESPN wasn’t really unhappy that he was leaving because they don’t like stars over there. Dan became a star, he made demands, and they got tired of listening to him and they let him out of his deal.

How can you say ESPN as not liking stars? They do like stars. Rick Reilly being exhibit A, at this point. You do not give a sports columnist a $3.5 million contract…

Rick is definitely a star. They see him as a triple threat. But the Rick Reillys of the world are few and far between. When you’re ESPN and you lose a big name like Dan Patrick, who they feel was skewing toward a younger demo, they had to go out and replace him. You look at the radio: I was there, Dan Patrick’s gone, Keith Olbermann’s gone, there are a lot of people that left there, because once you get to a certain level at ESPN, ESPN is about the company brand. It’s not about personality. Even if you’re a personality there, they don’t have a problem with that, but it’s all about ESPN. I mean, ESPN is talking to me now, and I’m going to sit down and have lunch with them again today, but they’re not going to offer me a lot of money, they’re not going to offer me what I need to live. That sounds stupid, I sound like an athlete now, but I’m talking about the ballpark that I was in. My problem now is – I’m not making Rome money, I’m not making Dan Patrick money – but I was making over a half a million dollars a year and nobody wants to pay that. No matter how good you are or how much you delivered, that’s tough money to get right now because ESPN is the only legitimate station right now. Fox Sports Radio now, they’re not giving anybody any money, they’re doing it on the cheap. They don’t have any stars. And Sporting News? The radio side is pretty much going out of business. That’s why they didn’t renew my deal because they didn’t want to give me a three-year deal, because they probably aren’t going to be in business on the radio side in three years.

Dan Patrick was in the right place at he right time, because when I left Sporting News, his show was already on the air, and when I left he benefited. I leave and Dan Patrick picks up 100 stations and now there are no openings. Nobody wants to syndicate an afternoon drive show.

So, you're not getting work because of your price tag?

Because of the price tag and there’s also this perception that I’m difficult to deal with – I don’t know where that came from. Because the last three jobs that I took, it wasn’t my intention to leave. I worked at ESPN for 8 years. I was there from '92-2000. I left when I was doing the morning show with [Mike] Golic because I got frustrated. I was out of work for 7 months when I left ESPN. It wasn’t because I was trying to scam my way out of a contract – Dan did that, and more power to him for it. I left not to get out of my contract, but because I was frustrated and because of the micro-managing of Disney. That’s why I left there. I left Fox after four years and because Clear Channel owned them and they wanted cut my salary. So they didn’t offer me a deal – well, they offered me a deal, but it was a huge pay-cut of $150,000 and I refused to take it. Again I was out of work for 7 months. Back then I could pick and choose. I didn’t own a home and I wasn’t going through a divorce, so back then I had the luxury of sitting around and trying to figure out what was right for me.

Since you're caught in this no man’s land right now, do you feel like there’s pressure on you to adapt? That you need to become more TV-friendly and start building your own brand?

I don’t have to do anything. I’m not desperate. I don’t have enough money to retire — I have a home here in LA that costs me a lot of money and I can’t even sell if I wanted to. I could work for less money than I made before. But I’m not going to sign with somebody until the next best deal comes along. I don’t work that way. My problem is, if I take a sub-standard job with a huge cut in pay, I won’t be able to pay my bills. If I could sell my house and break even, that’d be fine. But I would lose like a 100 grand right now, the way the market is. If I would take a $200,000 a year job right now, I’d basically be upside down. I’d barely make my bill payments. I’d be like the average American! Work just to have enough money to pay your bills. I’ve got alimony and I’ve got the house.

Are you bitter about the situation?

No, not at all! I’m happy, I’m healthy, I love life. I’m not battered, I’m not angry at anybody. I’m just willing to take the time to wait and see what’s out there. I’ve got local markets offering me jobs, but I can’t really move from LA because, as I mentioned, it would bankrupt me. I don’t’ want to go broke just to have a job. I’m in a Catch-22 situation. I’m not saying that I have to hold out to get a 7-figure deal. I mean Rome’s getting money, Dan Patrick’s getting seven-figures, and I ‘ve got people telling me I’m in the top three, so why should I take a $200,000 year job? Not only from an ego and market value perspective, it’s I wouldn’t be able to pay my bills! It’s because of my divorce situation. My wife has everything. All I have is the house and a lease car. I’m not crying the blues or anything, though...

In terms of your ego, though, wouldn’t it be a little weird if you took a job and you weren’t the lead guy?

It’s not even about ego, though. It’s not like I have to be the lead guy. It’s if I take a job and I fall off the face of the earth – not that LA is falling off the face of the earth, there’s 8 million people in their cars. I’m just disappointed that I’m not doing a national show because I get tons of emails everyday from people who tell me they miss the show. From all over the country. I think doing a national show keeps me interested because there is just so much more to talk about. You know, like, Philly, it’s just all Eagles all the time. I like the ability to talk about things the whole country cares about. The whole argument that syndicated radio doesn’t work is nonsense. Look at the Rush Limbaugh’s, look at the Sterns. Maybe sports is a little different, but "Mike and Mike" are doing okay, Rome is good as a syndicated show.

Do you think Rome is the best in the business right now?

I don’t know, he’s not my cup of…I don’t have a problem with it or anything. I know Jim personally and I give him a lot of credit for creating a niche. Back when he first started he had the people who supported him and he had the shtick and he had his own little unique thing going. The bottom line is whether or not I like it or you like it, the company that employs him continues to think he’s delivering for them and they’ll continue to pay him. Once your employer thinks you’re too valuable to lose, that’s when you have the power.

If he did not get into the on-air fistfight with Jim Everett that he wouldn’t be the star he is now?

That definitely helped. That’s so far removed now though, that I think there’s a lot of people that listen to him that have no idea that happened. Rome’s ratings aren’t great, but the thing that’s good about him is that he’s in a time slot that’s not really damaging to him if you don’t’ have great numbers. He’s on 9-noon Pacific. That’s the safe zone. That’s a spot where a lot of sports talk radio stations don’t want to go out to hire somebody, so it’s easier to just pick up his show and Jim built an empire out of it. I’m not jealous. I don’t sit at home saying, “Jeez, Jim Rome makes 3-4 million per year, how come I can’t make this?” If nobody wants to hire me, I’ll do something else.

Is it fair to make the comparison between terrestrial radio and print media at this point? The vitality of it, that is?

I think the more that you can offer a company. The more you can demand. If you can write and you can broadcast and you can do some TV, that’s where the value is. Rick Reilly. He write columns, he can do screenplays, he can go on radio, tv, he can blog…(Ed. Note: No, he can’t.). He becomes super-valuable. J.A. Adande of the L.A. Times, he's doing well right now. (Ed. Note: Yes, he is!). Michael Levy left the LA Times to work for Yahoo! because the world is changing. You’re going to have more immediate impact if you give people the information they want instantaneously. That’s why you’re seeing the blogs and sports talk radio thrive so much because the information is instantaneous. That’s why it’s so tough for people to go from the written word to the spoken word. Bill Conlin is a classic example. I don’t know if you remember when Bill was just writing and they started putting him on TV. Bill can write incredibly well, but you put him on TV and he couldn’t utter a sentence. So, his value becomes just as a writer. That’s why writers like to get on TV. That gives them more opportunity. Write a blog, have a column, do some TV, do some radio, and boom! — you’ve got it covered. Especially with all of the sports talk radio. There’s so many sports talk radio stations that need content.

It’s funny that you bring up Conlin because he just got suspended from DNL...

Oh, he did? What did he say? Well, you know, Bill’s near the end anyway so it’s not like he needs to work…

Well, I think it’s more Comcast being overly sensitive than him actually being offensive. He made some reference to a viewer-submitted email that may have come off as him comparing the person to a migrant worker, which in fact, he was probably just making a joke about Vineland, N.J….

That’s what we were talking about. The sensitivity. Something that ten-twenty years ago when we could make movies like “Young Frankenstein” and “Blazing Saddles”, people could laugh at that stuff. Now, you say something that one person perceives as insensitive or racial, the companies aren’t going to take a chance. It’s all about advertising. If one person thinks what you said is insensitive, you’re fucked.

The thing about Bill is, and this why people don’t seem to like him, I mean, you read on the blogs bashing this old guy, “Ah, this old guy, he’s a fucking piece of shit, why doesn’t he retire?” I mean, Conlin is one of the most revered columnists in the Philly area and now it seems young people resent him – those that want to be him – because he’s holding up their spot. I mean, I’m 56, but I don’t feel like I’m holding anybody back. Am I wrong? Do you think I represent a guy that just won’t go away?

No. Not at all. That’s what I think is interesting about your situation is. I think you are one of the professionals in this industry, but you are also somewhat of a one-trick pony, so your market value takes a hit that way…

I don’t know if I’m a “one-trick pony”, I’ve done TV, I’ve done other things. I’m not a guy who looks for jobs all of the time. Like, when I did the “Best Damn Sports Show”, they came after me. I don’t have an aggressive agent who goes after things like that.

But shouldn’t your agent be going after stuff like that right now? If you do have those skills and you’re not using them because you just want to get a radio job…

What happens is when you’re at my level, when you’re out of work, everybody knows it. And I’ve gotten a million emails from companies, promoters, stations, whatever, asking me, “How the fuck can you not have a job?” Now, it’s you’re a guy who’s difficult to deal with and you’re a “diva.” A diva? I’ve never had a problem with a producer, a co-worker, anything else. I’ve never insulted anybody, I’ve never as much as yelled at anybody in the studio. I think the perception comes from, how come this guy can’t hold a job? I can hold a job, I always fulfill my contracts, but I’m sure there’s a perception out there that makes people reluctant to hire me.

You look at somebody like Mike Missanelli, and I know Mike, but he’s been fired from jobs for supposedly beating up people. He keeps getting jobs! But people know where I am, ESPN knows where I am. I feel it’ll change soon. I’ll be working soon.

So are you having a meeting with Norby and the guys at ESPN?

No, it’s a local affiliate thing. It’s the same situation they’re having at this location that they did with their Dallas affiliate. They just hired Michael Irvin and Nate Newton, so I think ESPN on a local level, is looking at people, like, "Yeah, this guy’s done some damage, or this guy’s got some baggage, or whatever, but if they can produce ratings and not go over the line, then they’ll be fine." I think they know I don’t go over the line, I don't think the fear is that I’m going to be arrested with a couple of hookers one night with 15 bags of cocaine, that’s not what I do.

And that’s not something that Michael Irvin or Nate Newton do either, just for the record…

Naw, they don’t do that, no! No, I know Michael really well, so he told me before his problem wasn’t drugs — his problem was women. And when they were playing the women always wanted drugs. He’d have to get the coke for the women so they’d come back to the “White House”, he’d be the guy to always got it. The white guys — Aikman, the Moose Johnston, the squeaky clean guys — would go over there and take advantage of it, but Michael always got in trouble for it.

That’s why he’s such a great teammate!

Exactly. But I’m not battered, I’m not bitter. I wish I didn’t have to work any more. I’ve been working since I was 17 in radio.

Yeah, that’s why marriage sucks.

Yeah. I gave my wife everything. I said “Take everything” and she took everything I’ve ever worked for. And I don’t care because that’s how you get these things done, but I offered it to her 3 years ago, and then the lawyers get involved and then it’s, like, now they not only want everything, they also want $12,000 per month in alimony. You know, I’m not mad about it, but I’m not gonna get married again. But, what am I gonna say? Gee, woe is me? Everybody goes through crap. Everything just came at me all at once, but I’ll bounce back. I’ll get a job.

Everybody bounces back…

Yes, they do. And so will I.

Frank Deford has no idea what Deadspin is. Before we started our interview, he asked a couple of times. “That’s an interesting name for a sports site.” Deford spoke to me last week because his novel, “The Entitled,” a fictional morality tale about the modern-day athlete and the modern-day manager, is out in paperback. Needless to say, Deford’s a Professional with a capital P and dutifully answered all of the questions.
But he shares some interesting insights about the state of sports writing, female sports writers, Anna Kournikova, and that author who wrote Friday Night Lights who started yelling on HBO.

DS: So, although this is a “fictional” book, is this a composite of the modern-day athlete?

Frank Deford: Absolutely. That’s why I wrote it – to be representative of the modern athlete today. To follow that up, the characters are not based on any one person, they’re very much part composite and part my own imagination.

DS: Do you think today’s athletes get away with more stuff than they did 20 or 30 years ago?

FD: I don’t think they “get away” with more stuff. That suggests that they’re guilty. I think they do get away more with being celebrities more than they ever did before, they have less obligations than they ever did before — they feel that sense of entitlement more than they ever did before. They’re above it all. That’s the attitude. I think, actually, they may not get away with stuff like they did before. Nobody gets away things the way they used to. In this world today, everything is so carefully monitored, there’s such a trail, so I don’t think athletes get away with stuff more, but they feel like they’re above it.

DS :Do you think that’s symptomatic of the enormous salaries?

FD: Yeah, I think the money plays into it more than anything else. If you’re given that much money, when you’re that young, it just sets you apart. And when I started covering sports a long time ago in the 1960’s, writers were making almost as much money as athletes. So they didn’t have this sense that they were different – they thought they were lucky to be doing something that they loved, playing a game. Now, I think they feel “different.” They feel blessed. They feel entitled.

DS: Do think that salary discrepancy affects the way the media covers the athletes? That there is this underlying resentment?

FD: I think that’s probably true. I think it’s human nature. Though oddly enough, we’re now entering about the 20th year in which athletes are making huge sums of money. It jumped from 100,000 dollars, to hundreds of thousands of dollar to millions of dollars – so now we’re entering a phase where we accept athletes and expect them to make that much money, so I don’t think there’s as much resentment now, even though they make more money now then there was a few years ago because it’s the common nature of things. So journalists come into this profession understanding these athletes make so much money. I think there was that transisition period when both fans and journalists were resentful of athletes. I don’t get the question so much anymore as I used to about salaries where before I used to get it all the time. I think that’s probably indicative of the way people feel.

DS: Do you also think fandom has changed over the course of 20 years?

FD: I think in accepting the amount of money that athletes make, I think that fans accept that now. It’s the nature of the beast, that’s the way it is, so they understand it. All I think fans have changed – because the price of tickets has gone up so much – that they feel a certain sense of entitlement when they go to a game. You know? “I’m a big shot! I’m at the game now! I’m part of this!” And I think the fan behavior is worse, there’s less civility in the stands, and, of course, fans feel like they know more now because everybody has an opinion with the way the media is today. It’s not as separated as it was before – we’ve got the experts over here, the fans over here, now I think everybody feels like they know enough to be an expert.

DS: What do you think about the way journalism has changed? Do you feel a sense of sadness or do you think it has evolved positively?

FD: In so far as the writing is concerned, the kind of stuff that I did – and maybe I’m mourning my own early death – that there’s not as much opportunity to write as there used to be. To write long pieces – or not even long pieces, to write stuff like the columns of Red Smith and people like that. They’re different then what it is today. Everything today is based on x’s and o’s, inside baseball, it’s all “who’s gonna win?” or your comparing things – it’s not as thoughtful as it used to be. For my taste, I liked it better the way that it was. But I’m afraid the public is fonder of it the way it is now. That’s the reality and, of course, all of that has been changed by television first and then by the internet, you know, what you guys do.

DS: Have you felt pressured to adapt or have you just maintained?

FD: I think most people have to adapt and live, you know, that’s it. It’s the law of the jungle, and you wanna survive, you have to do what the market requires of you. Even I have accommodated myself. Look, a lot of the stuff I do now is on radio and television. When I started out, I was strictly a print guy. You either keep swimming, or you sink.

So, given that, do you like the stuff you do for HBO?

FD: Oh, I do like it. To compare writing an article for Sports Illustrated to doing a piece for “Real Sports”, the article, it was all me. You know, I’m out there by myself with my pad and pencil. “Real Sports” I’ve got a producer, an assistant producer, and cameramen. It’s an individual game versus a team game. So, I don’t think I take as much pride of authorship as I do with an article, but apart from that, I’m very proud of the finished product.

DS: Do you question any of the amount of reporting that’s been dedicated to certain topics in sports like, say, the Mitchell Report.

FD: Well, sometimes you disagree with the opinions of people, but I think the Mitchell Report was covered very carefully, I think people in sports took it very seriously, like I said, sometimes I disagree with the conclusions that people come to, but that’s true whatever the subject is. I think there’s more – and I have to be careful here because I’m one myself – I think there’s more opinions than there is reporting. Every week on radio, on NPR, I’m offering opinions. So, I’m part of the problem! That’s what I worry about, though, that journalism in general, as we see things being cut back…it’s like that old expression, “opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one” and all you’re seeing now is assholes. And the wonderful investigative work, the long, long articles that people wrote that took a lot of time, that’s the stuff that’s gone by the wayside.

DS: And as a younger journalist coming up in this industry, there’s probably not many writers people can look at now and say, “Yeah, I want to be like that guy” and…

FD: I was never an investigative reporter…but, god, you absolutely need them to keep this world straight. And those are the kind of people that we are losing. They used to give me six weeks or two months to do a piece for Sports Illustrated and I don’t think that kind of luxury exists so much anymore.

DS: But don’t you think that since we’re in a rumor-driven, gossip-driven society that the public…

FD: Absolutely! Absolutely! That’s …

DS: Hold on one second...do you think that because we exist in that society that would be more suspicious of any kind of investigative reporting because there will always be another reporter whose job is solely to punch holes in that story?

FD: Yes, yeah. You just said it, it’s gossip-based writing, and celebrity-based, and personality-based. I mean, look at the coverage of the presidential campaign? It’s not even that focused on the issues, it’s about personality, or strategy…it’s like sports. It’s not what are they standing for…it’s how are they doing? How’s the game going? Everything is a sport now. You pick up the newspaper and you don’t read reviews about movies, you read how well they did at the box office. So, it’s always a question of the game, rather than the substance.

DS: So, have you had any desire to get out of the business because of that environment, or do you feel at this point you’ll just continue to do what you do and if people like it, “great”, if not, well…

FD: It does force certain people out, people who can’t make those type of …I don’t know what would’ve happened to me if this had taken place 20 years ago. This is the end of my career, rather than the middle of my career. SO it’s scary… I know it’s forced people out who didn’t have the tools to adjust.

DS: Interesting. Well, let me ask you this, when you wrote the Anna Kournikova piece for Sports Illustrated you got a lot of crap for that. Do you think that was symptomatic of the ….

FD: What? I’m sorry, C.J.(sic), this is the one time I didn’t hear you correctly…

DS: The reaction to that column…

FD: What column?

DS: Anna Kournikova...?

FD: Oh! Anna Kournikova, oh my god… that was to be predicted because… well, first that was a very legitimate story. Totally legitimate story. You had somebody who was the most popular athlete in the world, it was the first time you had an athlete that was accepted as the sex symbol in the world, it was a , and you never had anything like that before, it was a perfectly legitimate story. But…women don’t like that kind of thing. Women sports writers in particular. It’s okay to write about male characters, right? But you can’t write about female characters, it’s a different sort of standard. So, I was not at all surprised at some of the reaction, but I was surprised at some of the vehemence, I mean, some of it I felt was over the top. But, the idea that you’re supposed to do a story on the #1 tennis player and then after that you’re supposed to do a story on the #2 tennis player, and then you’re supposed to a story on the #3 tennis player and so on down the line is crap. In journalism you’re supposed to focus on interesting people. And Anna Kournikova was in no way the best player – she was better than most people gave her credit for – but she was the most interesting! And to me, that was a perfectly valid story. No more so than any other story I’ve done on someone who wasn’t the best player, but who was the most interesting.

DS: Do you think that if you had written that story, say, 20 years ago do you think it would result in the same reaction?

FD: Same reaction.

DS: Really?

Oh yeah. Because women sports writers have very little sense of humor. And they look upon women in sports with out any kind of freedom. It’s like mathematics: you’re supposed to look at is a science and not as entertainment. And that would’ve been the case 20 years ago. It’s the same way if you do a story on a small sport, okay? You’re going to get more criticism if you’re critical about a small sport. If you do critical story on football, football fans don’t rise up. If you do a story on soccer, say, and you’re critical? Soccer fans get very defensive. It’s the same way with women in sports. They get very, very defensive if anybody writes anything that’s at all critical of women’s sports. Ironically, I’m someone who’s stood up for women’s sports through the years, been a total defender of Title 9 against all the men who screamed about it, but that didn’t cut me any slack. And here I was writing about “booties” as opposed to athleticism and that’s a sin. You can’t do that.

DS: Well the column kind of veers off into this territory where it’s not only that you’re writing about her being pretty, it’s about how she’s sexualized in a way that certain female athletes hadn’t been at that point. So once you start talking about her and her beauty – and being positive about it and what her beauty brings to the game, I think that’s where people get defensive. You know, is this guy just trying to be a dirty old man and generate some outside interest in this story.

FD: If I had been the one that said Anna Kournikova was pretty, it would’ve been one thing. But I was responding to the public taste. At that time she was getting more hits on her website or whatever it is, than anybody in the world. So, it wasn’t me standing up as the dirty old man, it was me standing up as an observer and saying “this is fascinating” that an athlete is getting this kind of attention for her pulchritude. That’s never happened before! That was a very legitimate story. It’s not like I was a dirty old man at all, I thought I was a damn good reporter on the subject.

DS: Getting back to what you said about female sports writers, do you think they always have to stand up for themselves in instances like this, even if it’s an overreaction, because they’re in a minority?

FD: I think that anybody that’s in a minority is always going to be more sensitive. I understand that. It does not surprise me. I’m someone who is very blessed – I’m a white male. I’m in the majority. So it’s very unlikely that anybody would hurt me in attacking me. If they attack me personally, that’s one thing, but as a white male, I don’t possess that kind of sensitivity and that’s understandable. So I do think that women writers in general are going to be more sensitive about gender issues than men are.

You look at the recent issue with the Chicago White Sox. And I don’t know exactly what was going on the way they were explaining it and exactly what it was that was so horrifying, but it was, as I understand, a woman sports reporter who wrote about it first and who was upset.

DS: I think it was actually a Chicago sports columnist – a male sports columnist who originally brought it up and questioned it, but I think it was a woman who did a column to further explain why it was wrong.

FD: Exactly, I think the same way an African-American writer would have his ears up listening for something racial. I understand that. That’s perfectly to be expected. What happened with Anna Kournikova, even though I thought some of it was over the top, was expected and I was not the least bit surprised.

DS: Now is there one issue in sports right now that you feel is not being covered enough?

FD: Hmm. That’s interesting. I can’t think of anything off the top of my head. I think certainly if you asked me that a few years ago we could’ve talked about drugs, couldn’t we?

DS: Of course.

FD: I think one issue that gets some attention but not enough is the physical abuse that football players take. I think football clearly does more damage to the body than we want to admit. And it comes up now and then, it’s not like we avoid it, but I think we just pretend that just because these guys are wearing helmets and shoulder pads that they’re not as hurt over the long period as much as they are. Apart from that I can’t think of anything else. It’s a rather dull time in sports, sports was much more interesting a few years ago when you had new franchises, and teams jumping around, and strikes, and when you had women breaking into sports for the first time. Right now it’s in a very stable period. Everybody’s making a lot of money and there’s not a whole lot of controversy.

DS: At the same time, though, with the majority of sports headlines making national news being negative stuff, like steroids, etc…

FD: Well, that’s always the case. When something goes wrong, you know, sports aren’t going to make the front pages when everything is hunky-dory. Sure, if Big Brown wins the Belmont that’s going to get on the front page, if Danica Patrick wins the Indy 500, that’s going to make the front page, but by and large, it’s issues that get on the front page and issues are negative. Im just speaking relatively , there’s always going to be negative things in sports, but I’m saying sports are not as interesting today as it was in the past.

Oh, here’s another thing that doesn’t get covered enough is the whole business of college sports. It’s so fake. Such a sham. And I understand it, that you can’t bay at the moon, and we’ve all come to accept college sports as a shame. We accept it. I understand you can’t write about it, day after day after day, but it’s a subject that should warrant our attention more than it does.

DS: Well, I think the O.J. Mayo case and USC in general will probably shed a little more light on some of those issues, at least in how it’s presented.

FD: But I think besides the money aspect of it, I’m talking more about the academics, that we all know that so many of these athletes aren’t really going to class, aren’t graduating, aren’t remaining eligible in any true way because that’s so hard to discover, then something like O.J. Mayo pops up and we pay attention to it. We’ve come to accept it, the same way we accept that football players are killing themselves.

DS: But what could a writer possibly do to change those things?

FD: I’m not really sure, but it requires writers and members of the media being more vigilant and not accepting the status quo. After all, we’re supposed to first of all cover the games. And there are so many people who come into this profession that aren’t anxious and don’t want to tip rocks over. They just want to cover the game. Again, there’s the tendency to just cover the x’s and o’s, who’s going to get drafted, we by and large pay attention to the good stuff.

But also at the same time, getting back to what you were saying before, a lot of these beat writers can’t look into these types of issues and risk being shut out.

Well, that’s always been the case. Any reporter knows that if he’s causing trouble, he’s risking his access. And when you go into this profession those are the decisions you have to make as to what you want to deal with, if you want people to be mad at you, well, they’re probably not going to be willing to talk to you. On the other hand, there are a tremendous number of writers – and not just in sports – who people come to accept as the best in their profession even though they may be critical sometimes. You earn that respect over time just by simply doing a good job. It’s the best people that uncover the truth.

DS: At what point in your career do you think you earned that respect?

FD: I don’t know, I can’t put a year figure on it. I think it depends on how small the universe is that you’re writing about. It takes a while but I couldn’t tell you how long it takes.

DS:Well, at what point in your career did you reach a level higher than you’d originally aspired?

FD: I’d say 10 years into it I’d felt I’d reached the top. It’s just a round figure, but I think after ten years, I’d achieved a certain position of eminence. And I was very lucky, given the fact that I was working for the only weekly national sports magazine at the time that gave me an opportunity to be accepted easier than those who were working for a small or medium-sized newspaper. It wasn’t all me, it was me being lucky where I was. Someone working at the New York Times has the potential to earn that kind of respect faster than someone at the Pittsburgh-Post Gazette – that’s just the reality.

DS: So, you’ve never heard of Deadspin?

FD: I probably did, I don’t remember.

DS: But did you at least hear about the Costas special that was on a few weeks ago?

FD: Yeah I did see that, I was on the road at the time, but I did see that yes.

DS: Well, Deadspin was the site that was featured on that segment that got Buzz Bissinger all mad…

FD: Oh, the guy that Bissinger took after was the fella from Deadspin? Oh, okay, heh-heh. Well, he contained himself very well, I though in the face of that storm, he contained himself. I spent an evening with Bissinger once, I had no idea that he, heh-heh, could get so worked up.

DS: Well, he’s very passionate about this subject in particular I think.

FD: Yeah, somebody was telling me a guy on the radio was asking him a couple of questions and he blew his top then, but I’ve always seen Bissinger as a very civil and very restrained human being, but he was obviously very emotional about this topic. And he said he was very emotional about this topic and he proved it, didn’t he?

DS:Could you see his point in anything he was saying?

FD: Oh, sure, I took to his points well. Now, he was talking about blogs in general, now I don’t know the guy that he screamed at, so I can’t talk about him, but a tremendous number of blogs are very poorly written. Listen, a lot of articles in newspapers are poorly written too, but there is a higher percentage of poorly written blogs than there is newspapers. I think we remember Bissinger’s antics more than we remember his points and I think he had some good points to make.

DS: Yeah, he probably did. But what do you think of his one point about printing pictures of drunk athletes and what not, that they’re goal is only to humiliate the person.

FD: I think there’s some truth to that as well, but look…I don’t know much about this at all, we’re getting off track here. My point is that there’s always been sensationalist press. I remember the last year the New York Post printed a picture of Rodriguez walking into a hotel room with his girlfriend in…in..

DS: Toronto.

FD: Toronto! Right. I think that’s fair game. If he was going to flaunt that sort of thing, then he was asking for it. Again, it’s a fine line, and there will be other people who will say, no, no, no…it’s his private life and stay out of it. So everybody draws a line differently here. But I do think you should be responsible and not always playing the game of Gotcha. It’s easy to play the game of Gotcha, particularly with young me, which is what athletes are. And I think that some of the stuff that’s been done, to take another example, to Brittany Spears has been indescribably abusive and unfair. So, where do you draw the line? Yes, she’s a public figure but we ought to be more responsible and draw the line. Where it’s drawn has to be decided in each individual case.

DS: Well, what about Roger Clemens and the way he’s being treated by the New York Daily News?

FD: Aw, Clemens asked for it. Clemens asked for it. He’s a classic case If anybody wants to throw a pie in Roger Clemens’ face they have a right to because he stuck his chin out. So I have no sympathy for Roger Clemens whatsoever.

DS: Did you ever meet him?

FD: No, I never have met him, but it wouldn’t make any difference. Not only did he demand the hearing Washington, he put a defamation suit against somebody else. He threw his wife under the bus. He has, as far as I can tell, acted completely irresponsibly and so I have no sympathy for any criticism that comes to Roger Clemens.

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DS:Now. Have you made up with the Boston fans? I remember when you left to sign with the Angels, it was a little contentious.

FL:You know what happened? When the new ownership took over the Sox, the first thing that they did was give me a call, and they wanted me to be in the Red Sox Hall of Fame. And that would have never happened under the old regime. I was kind of persona non grata with that group - same as Rick Burleson, Carlton Fisk and a few other guys, which kind of grew as the years went on. For me personally, it was just a bad situation and these guys made it right and I'm very grateful to the existing ownership of the Sox for giving me that opportunity to go back to the fans again.

Speaking of fans...how do you feel about one fan in particular, Bill Simmons? He just absolutely loves you.

Ummmm...I don't recall that name, but should I know him?

The Sports Fella? The columnist for ESPN? Really? You don't know him? He, like, worships you?

Oh! Wait a minute! I know where this is going. Yes, I do know him! Yes, I do know him! Yeah, yeah, yeah! I don't know that we've met more than once, but one time I think it was pretty interesting if it was the right meeting...

The one at the celebrity softball game?

That's the one! Yeah! He's got my baseball card in his wallet!

Did you think that was weird?

Um...I thought it was kind of different. I think I had Farrah Fawcett in my wallet.

It appears that everyone born in New England in the late sixties regarded you as their first honest to goodness man crush.

Here's how it works: My baseball demographic right now is probably people aged 38 and older. And in the years when they're 10-13, those are pretty impressionable years, and any kid who is that age gets interested in music, baseball or anything latches on to you. That's when I was quote-unquote a star, and these kids saw me then. That's my crowd. That's my group.

Yeah, Simmons dressed up as you for Halloween apparently.

Yeah. And that's what happens. It doesn't matter if it's male or female - those are my guys. That's just like I was growing up with Willie Mays. That's when you're impressionable and you begin to like somebody at that age and you like them for the rest of your life.

But you've never spoken with Simmons again after that? He's a pretty legit writer for ESPN now.

I know that, I know that. And ESPN and I parted ways in about '99, so he's post-that, I believe. Yeah, and he's doing some pretty good things and he has a good baseball mind I know that.

Well, how about Peter Gammons? Are you friends with him?

You mean The Commissioner?

No, Peter Gammons.

I know, that's what we call him...

Oh, right.

Come on, man! You should know that. I thought you knew stuff.

I don't. I don't know anything.

But Pete's a great guy. He was the Boston beat writer when I first got there. And Peter Gammons, if you recall, was the first one to make up the back page, the sporting page for the Boston Globe, with all of the statistics and everything you needed to know. That was Peter's deal.

So, you see Peter Gammons more regularly than you do Bill Simmons?

I see Peter when I go back to Boston when I do some games for the Sox. So, I'm there three or four times a year and I bump into Peter for different events. Yeah, so I don't do that with Bill.

So, do you think if you were an athlete in today's media environment, that you could handle all the scrutiny of player's personal lives?

I think I could. I think it takes some of the fun out of the game for the guys because they really can't let their hair down like we did - literally in the 70s, hair was a big thing. I watch guys play and they do all the right things, they still play well, but I don't see laughter. I see it with certain guys, like Manny, but there are no more Bill Lees. There are no characters of the game. They're all homogenized almost, and that's too bad. That's what's fun about baseball. I like to see the individual.

It doesn't seem like it's worth anyone's while to have a personality in this day and age, though, because it could come back and bite them in the ass, though.

It's very difficult because of all the media. At any point you can be seen. I mean, you've got your phones and you can photograph guys with your phones. So, where do you go? I was a fisherman, if I got away from the game for a little bit, I'd go fishing. So, it would just be me and the fish.

Yeah, that's not an interesting photo.

I would've not been very much fun to follow around like that.

Do you think you deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?

That's not really for me to say, but let's put it this way. On the defensive side, I'd throw my glove in there with anybody that's ever played. On the offensive side? You throw out the injuries that happened to me the second part of my career basically, I did some things that people had never done before. Now today, people are doing the things all the time that I started doing, running into walls, those types of things. I really didn't have any holes in my game other than the fact that I couldn't stay on the field for the second half of my career. It was probably a culmination of all the sports that I did as a kid, kind of catching up to me.

Now that Boston has won two World Series recently, do you feel like they're now the most annoying fans on the planet?

It's a little different when you're the lovable loser - now the Cubs have that mantra. But Boston's like bullies now. Because they've won, and the Yankees, even though they're always contenders haven't won in a while, and all of the sudden, Boston is the team to beat. And I don't know if they know how to wear that hat.

So you notice the shift in fandom?

Oh, absolutely. But, you know, there were a lot of people following the Sox when I was playing. I mean, we didn't have a "Nation." It might have been a couple of counties.

Do you think "The Red Sox Nation" is retarded?

It's pretty supportive. I was at a game in San Diego and there were more Red Sox fans there than Pads fans.

Did the crazed Nation people tackle you?

No, they were very polite about it. Like, "Hey, Freddie. What are you doing here? Why are you in San Diego? Why aren't you in Boston?" They were just fans. I really have a good time with the fans. I don't shy away from them like I did as a kid.

But no fan came up to you showing off a baseball card in his wallet or telling you that they dressed like Fred Lynn for Halloween?

No, no, no. Nothing like that. Ha! That was weird, the card was all worn down, like it'd been run through the washing machine or something. It wasn't pristine. The wallet had seen its better days to - he probably got the card and the wallet around the same time.

And you never stayed in touch with Simmons, that's a shame.

You know, no, we never exchanged information. I don't think I even had email back then. He can always contact me through my website.

Do you think you'd go fishing with him?

You never know. If somebody offers me a fishing trip, I'm pretty easily coerced into doing that.

So you would go fishing with Bill Simmons?

I might!

How about you just go fishing with me instead?

There you go.

Alright, I think that's enough...

You don't want to talk about anything else? About why I'm here?

I got it, I got it. MLB.com "Rookie of the Month", sponsored by Gillette, blah, blah, blah. It's all right here in the press release.

Yeah, they have a website, MLB.com/Gillette. And what I think's neat about is the fans are voting. I think this is a big thing and I tell you why: Not only are fans voting for this but I think it's going to be an avenue for young people to vote. Because let's face it, young people are the ones that are going to be online.

You don't say....

Yeah. They are. If you told my dad about a website, he'd go "What's that? Is there a spider in the room?" So this is an avenue to get young people involved with baseball at a primary level. The fact they have a say into who's going to win these awards. Plus, they could win some pretty cool things...a trip to the All-Star game, a trip to the World Series. I mean, these are pretty cool things, right? I mean, Gillete's a great sponsor, and I'm glad they've partnered up with MLB.com...

Speaking of Gillette, what was the worst shaving experience you've ever had in your life?

Uh...it was the first time I ever shaved. Because I didn't know what I was doing and every guy when they're 15 wants to shave even if there is nothing there. And I kind of attacked myself a little bit roughly and in those days....oooooh...the razors. There was nothing there to prevent you from slashing yourself.

But now with Gillette razors, that doesn't happen...

Yeah. That was not a Gillette product I slashed myself with.

Have you ever tried the Gillette manscaping product?

You know what? I use the Fusion.

Ah, yes. "The Fusion."

Yeah. There's about 6,000 blades in there and you can't go wrong.

Do you shave your whole entire body?

No, no, no....I don't do that. I'm from California, but I don't do that.

That's a different generation. I'm actually shaving myself right now.

Oh...oh, no. Oh, oh. I'm glad this is not a picture phone.

Me too.

So, as much as Jay Glazer presents himself as "a jag-off from Brooklyn," it's a calculated approach, and it's one he's mastered to create the brand that is Jay Glazer. Right now, Jay Glazer The Brand has made himself into one of the most plugged-in reporters working the NFL beat. Today, Jay The Brand is the face of Subwayfreshbuzz.com, starring in a goofy NFL draft-themed webisode with former fat guy Jared and draft day darling Chris Long. He dedicated 30 minutes to talk to Deadspin between 3 and 3:30. He was a surprisingly great interview. So for his time and effort, please go watch his weird Subwayfreshbuzz.com thing. You know, he kind of earned that. I trimmed the fat on this interview, but it's still long as Santonio Holmes. Take it with you to the bathroom and enjoy all the Spygate goodness.

If you — or your "client" — would like to be included in an upcoming "Interviews Of A Lifetime," please contact either myself or Deadspin HQ for inquiries.

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AJD: So, are you busy with the draft stuff right now?

JG: Oh, it's nuts. It's nuts Everybody calls constantly and you've got to try to figure out who's telling you the truth, and who's not, who's trying to smokescreen ya — for the most part, they don't smoke-screen me as much like they do some of the other guys. But you still have to make sure somebody's not smoke-screening you or when somebody's blatantly trying to tell you the truth then you have to check out WHY they're telling you the truth ... yeah, it's nuts. But fun, though.

You seem to developed a reputation as the go-to guy for a lot of people in the NFL. You piss Chris Mortensen off on a daily basis. How did you develop that reputation?

JG: I go about my business differently than others — I don't go for the scoop, I go for the relationship. I'm not trying to sit up here like I'm holier than thou, but that's what I do, and I probably report two or three percent of what I know and the other stuff ... well, you have to look at it like you're an information broker. Other guys will get a scoop and then burn somebody for that scoop. They're looking at it short-term, like "let's break this right now," even though it might burn this guy or piss this guy off. But I look at it and say, "If I burn this guy here, there's probably ten [stories] I'm going to lose." Let me never, ever screw anybody, and I'll continue to get the scoops. I'm not gonna get every scoop, Mort's not gonna get every scoop, Peter King's not going to get every scoop, Adam Schefter's not going to get every scoop — that's not how it happens. It's just a fact of life. The Favre thing was based on relationships that I've built for a long time, and I got it from a couple of guys that really nobody ever gives the time of day to. That's the other thing: You can't just go to the head coaches and the GMs and the star players — you have to go to everybody. Some of the biggest scoops I get are from the practice squad players, you know who are just a bunch of strokes, just like I am.

But how long does it take you to develop those relationships?

JG: Ah...my whole life. I have some guys that I've been friends with since I started in this league and they say to me, "You are absolutely the same jag-off you were the first day we met you." Before I was doing this, I was bartending in Brooklyn. I try to take kind of the same approach in dealing with people and attitude as I did when I was doing that. I act the same way toward my grandmother, or the commissioner of the NFL, or Warren Sapp —- doesn't matter who you are.

I think people realize that there are so many B.S'ers in this business, so many posers, that...one of the best compliments I got was from my ex...who said this to me at one point...

Not Miss New Jersey, right?

JG: Well, yeah, actually, that's who that was.

Ah...bummer?

JG: Yeah, yeah. Anyway...She asked, uh, Warren Sapp or somebody at the time, "Why do you all call my boyfriend — she was my girlfriend at the time — 24-7?" And Sapp or whoever said, "Because he's the only guy in our lives without a vested interest. He doesn't care about anything and he doesn't care about pissing us off." I thought that was pretty nice.

Do you think that approach is the way you have to be in this type of media landscape right now?

JG: It's just the way I am. Doing this thing with Jared and Chris Long at Subwayfreshbuzz.com, they'll tell you...I'm off. I'm off, man! I admit it , I'm somewhat demented. And I'm blessed with this kind of wacky personality...

Wait, what do you mean you're "off?"

JG: I mean, I'm demented, I'm just off, you know what I mean...different. I'm not your normal, conservative reporter.

I heard there were rumors other media organizations were trying to lure you away from Fox? That you were scooping everybody else so much that it was just becoming embarrassing for other media outlets.

JG: I haven't heard that one. I read somewhere that somebody was, but I've never had anything or saw anything like that happen. I can't see anything like that happening, Fox treats me great. They got a couple of pretty good shows, like American Idol, so I think they do okay...

But it is nice to be thought of that way. You go to the NFL owners meetings and your competitors and some of the owners will come up to you and go, "Hey, you know, you've had a great year, you've had a monster year." I've told the story that when I did get my hands on the Spygate video, Mortensen texted me that day and said "Good job, A-hole." Peter King, he was in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever he was and he comes up to me at the owners meeting and he says, "I knew you had it over there. I'm proud of you." It's nice to hear that from your competitors. For years, me and the other reporters we hated each other. I had nothing in common with them, they had nothing in common with me. They didn't like the way I went about my business because, you know, I go about it by building relationships. And they'll [other reporters] be like, well, " You're not objective." And the difference is, because I have a relationship with these guys [my sources, NFL players] I can tell them anything. I mean, I've called guys out and told them to their faces, "Man, you suuuuck all of the sudden." Where as if another reporter says that to a player, that player will cut them off forever.

And you've never tried to contain that approach in anyway?

JG: No, no,no, no, no — I'm not the sugar-coating type of guy. I remember one guy who's hooked in tight with Subway also by the way, (authors note: Christ, another plug? For fuck's sake...) was Michael Strahan. And one year I was getting on him hard. I said to him, "Dude, enough of this crap about you getting double-teamed and triple-teamed. You never hear Reggie White complain about this. You don't hear Lawrence Taylor complain about it. You don't even hear Simeon Rice complain about it. Just shut up and deal with it. If you want to be one of the great ones, this is what's going to happen to you. I just haven't seen the effort recently..." And Strahan gets all pissed off and he's like, "Well, I've been wanting to talk to you because I've noticed that your writing hasn't been good recently..." That was a good comeback.

So, do you consider yourself a "writer?"

JG:Uhmmmm... I consider myself a reporter. Whether that's for writing, or TV, or whatever it is. I consider myself a reporter now, but I'm also trying to host a couple shows on Fox, my mixed martial arts show and pro football preview. I try to bring the same approach to those things as I do to reporting...you know, a little demented a little off...

Well, getting back to that whole lack of objectivity thing — some people might call you a jock-sniffer based on the way you get your stories.

JG:Never heard that one. Clearly, I don't kiss their butts. Scott Ackerson, who is a producer at Fox NFL Sunday, he came to the Pro Bowl one year with me. I stay with one of the teams in their hotel, because the rest of the media is like 30 miles away, and all you really do at the Pro Bowl is drink. So, I'm not drinking and driving.

So, Scotty came with me and went out with me and I'm there, holding court, and he goes back and tells people, "It's the damndest thing. It's unbelievable. He has his own little mafia...but the worst thing is, Jay treats them[the players] like crap! He's the one talking more trash than anybody and they just deal with it." I mean, I'm a bastard if anything, not a sniffer.

But don't you think these relationships could backfire at some point? Where do you draw the line between your job as reporter and your "relationships?"

JG: That's the thing of it, you almost have to look at it as the DEA would: Like, we've got this mid-level drug dealer and we can bust him and look pretty good, or we can use him, and get 10 more guys that are bigger. Like, guys know what the deal is. I'll help them, but they know what the deal is. I just did this whole thing with Jared Allen getting traded from the Chiefs to the Vikings. So, the Vikings called me about him, a couple of other teams called me about him, and the thing is, I take Jared Allen to train with me in Mixed Martial Arts at facility in Arizona, so I'm around him a lot, and I let him know about the calls I'm getting, but I hold off on it. Instead of me reporting it as something that might happen, I'll hold off an wait until I can officially get that the Chiefs have decided to trade him to Minnesota.

And you just got that firsthand from him, by virtue of training with him?

JG: Well, yeah, we work out together. Again, I could've reported that a while ago, but I'd rather cultivate it and then as soon as the news broke, he called me up and go, "Post it ... here are my numbers, this is what it was for," etc. and I'm the only one with that information. Here's the other thing, I get a call Monday from somebody with the Dolphins and he's like "We're getting close to Jake Long." And they're like, just hold off for us, hold off for us, we'll let you know and you'll be the first to know. I hold off, and there I am, the first to report it. Have I been burned before? Yeah. Thank God I've been right more often than I've been burned, but it does happen.

Do you have any worries about the Spygate issue if it does eventually end up in front of Congress? Do you worry about being in a Judith Miller-type situation because of your involvement in it?

JG: Well, I got a call from Sen. Specter and he asked me to meet...first off, there was some ridiculous report out there that said I had agreed to hand over the tapes to Congress. I do have the tapes, but am not doing that, nor would I, and if they want to see them, I show them at parties all the time, so they're more than welcome to come over to my house and see them. Me and my buddies will watch them all the time, because the tapes are hilarious to be honest with you....

How's that?

JG: Because it's not just football...it's classic. The tapes go back and forth between... Well, the first part of the tape, the guy recording it , all he's focusing in on are the butts of the Jet City Dancers. He's going from chick, to chick, to chick, and then you see, like, Tom Brady step in and then he'll [the dude taping it] hit the coaches a little bit, but when there's a break? He goes into the stands and then focuses on T and A. It is classsssic. It is like Spygate meets "Girls Gone Wild."

And that's what's on the tapes that everyone's getting upset about? Does that damage the credibility of those tapes at all?

JG: Oh, no, no, no,no — because the rest of it, is damaging. Because they go the coaches, to the down and distance, back up to the coaches, back to the down and distance — it couldn't be anymore clear. They focus in on three guys the entire time, it is soooo brazen it's incredible.

So, how long did you sit on that for before you went with it?

JG: Oh, I got the tape that week and showed it that week. The only thing I had to wait for was Fox NFL Sunday. My boss at Fox, I have to give him a lot of credit, they were nervous, they were concerned and I said to them "Guys, I'm not telling you where I got it from, I'm never telling you where I got it from, and if you want to know where I got it from? If that's the problem, than I won't run it." To their credit, they just said "Jay, the NFL is going to launch a major investigation into how you got it..." I said, "That's fine, they'll never find the people. Ever." And thank God because all of the Fox people stood by me. And after that, people thought I was going to lose my job over it because the NFL was calling me and asking me where I got it. To this day, even the producers at Fox have NO clue where I got it from. Nor would I tell them. And I said to them, "If you ever try to make me, I'll lie to ya." I'll die before I tell anybody where I got it from.

Will you go to jail for it though?

JG: Oh absolutely.

So, what's your relationship with Roger Goodell like now?

JG: Roger and I are fine. Roger understood I had a job to do and I didn't mean to put him in a bad position. I mean, people around him are ticked. I called him the morning I got it and said, "Look, I got something big here..." and I told him to just watch it and I'd call him from home and he's was just like, "Ahh....you're killing me." I mean, he knew.

fin

If you — or your "client" — would like to be included, please contact either myself or Deadspin HQ for inquiries.

First up: ESPN's Kenny Mayne.

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What made Suzy Kolber's baby?

Kenny Mayne contemplates this question as we sit across from each other a tiny table in the library at the Regency hotel on 61st and Park in Manhattan. He repeats it out loud — slowly — lets it simmer, smirks, then tries to think of the best way to answer it without saying anything too offensive.

"What made the baby?" he repeats, making sure he got the question right.

Yes. What. The Kolber tot is a milkshake baby. So where did it come from?

"That is public knowledge, right?" he asks.

I say, yes, but then I'm not sure. I mean, she's not married, there doesn't appear to be a man in her life, and, as I explain to Mayne, there have long been questions about her sexuality and whether or not she's a lesbian.

Mayne smirks again, the patented Kenny Mayne smirk. He chooses his answer carefully since Kolber is a friend of his and he's seen pictures of the baby and then reminds himself (and me) out loud that he still has to get the baby a present.

"I think Suzy's devotion to her child and wanting to be a mother is what made the baby." Proud of his answer, he smiles.

The reason I'm sitting here in this fancy hotel, at this tiny table, talking to Kenny Mayne is because Kenny Mayne is writing a book. Or has written a book. It's called "An Incomplete & Inaccurate History of Sport," and it hits bookstores April 22. We set up this interview the day before; he agreed to meet and said he'd be wearing blue. He was. The book is comprised of short little chapters outlining everything from tackle football to orienteering, with some factual elements, generously sprinkled with bone-dry, here's-what-I-think riffs that may or may not have anything to do with the chapter titles. There are pictures and crude illustrations by his young daughters.

Bottom line: if you love Kenny Mayne, you'll love the book. If you don't like Kenny Mayne, you'll hate it. If you have no idea who Kenny Mayne is, the book will be as enjoyable to read as an Icelandic car insurance policy.

Here is some information gleaned from our two-hour conversation:

• This is a fancy-ass hotel he's staying at, and Kenny Mayne seemingly knows every single person who works there. We pause a few times during the interview so he can acknowledge busboys, waiters, hostesses and various other hotel employees. Others spotted at the hotel in the lobby? Diane Sawyer. Colin Powell. Oh, and the black piano-playing dude from Melinda and Melinda who ended up boinking Chole Sevigny. (Ed. Note: That would be Chiwetel Ejiofor, and he's actually pretty awesome.)

• He was paid a little under six figures to do "Dancing With The Stars."

• He read his Media Approval Rating and was impressed at how well thought out the comments were.

• He read one-quarter of "God Save The Fan" in the bookstore. (Ed. Note: Buy it, dick.)

• He has recently re-upped his contract with ESPN — but he won't be doing SportsCenter this time around.

• He jokingly asked for a signing bonus during the negotiations. He did not get it.

• He owns a 2.5 percent share of a 4-year-old racehorse.

• When there are important, real world stories to be done on ESPN, Bob Ley is called in. That's what happened on 9/11. Mayne says "Yeah, they call in the general." Bob Ley is "the general."

• He has a weird accent that sounds vaguely Canadian.

• He has a notebook of quips that he's used on SportsCenter.

• Snoop Dogg blurbs his book, but he's never smoked herb with him even though he's had plenty of opportunities.

• He loves Pearl Jam and is attending their concert on June 27 with Neil Everett.

• He has not seen "Two Girls One Cup." After I explain to him in graphic detail of what it is, he simply says, with a wide-eyed expression, "Ah, I don't know if I'd want to see that..."

• He admits that "Who's Now" was not his "favorite thing ESPN has ever done."

I tell him that sometimes he seemed bored doing SportsCenter, and ask him if that was done intentionally.
"That was actually a criticism of one of the [ESPN] bosses. That doing something in a deadpan way may come across like that," he says." But I don't think I'm bored, I just think it's funnier if I don't laugh at my own joke, ring the bell, or announce, 'Okay, I'm going to say something funny now.'" And he is a funny guy. He considers himself a creative, cerebral-type guy, who has aspirations of being Christopher Guest, more than being a glorified sports news reader.

Mayne hedges a little bit when asked about his future with ESPN by saying that he plans on fulfilling his contract the next two years, but he does envision a life outside of the WWL.

"If I had my druthers, I'd not work and just make independent films," he says. "But I like the position I'm in with ESPN right now and the security so we're not quite there yet." (He does not come off pretentious when he says this. However, it is noted, that when typed out, it does appear pretentious. I assure you it's not.)

But what about the environment at ESPN? The big, corporate overlord seems like it would be creatively stifling, especially with those inter-office memos. He's evasive — except about the memos.

"Yeah, I'd like to know who your sources are on that. They seem to get to you guys rather quickly. It's probably somewhat amusing to the rank-and-file employees to see our inter-office memos posted five minutes after they're distributed. I can understand how our bosses wouldn't like it. Norby probably doesn't love it."

Now, onto more pertinent matters: Salisbury. Mayne says he was completely thrown off-guard when they let Salisbury go, but he does offer that the timing of Cris Carter hopping on board almost as soon as NFL Live went under, may suggest that ESPN brass new Carter would be available. He said he had no knowledge of Salisbury's firing prior to when it happened and had only heard about some of his, um, "problems" from what he read online and in the paper. (Mayne is not a big drinker and says he hasn't been drunk in seven years. This is probably why he didn't hang out with Salisbury very much. We have two Cokes at the hotel, which cost $13.01. Told you it was a fancy hotel.)

"I thought Sean did a great job when he was there. I also thought Sterling Sharpe did a great job when he was there. I liked Michael Irvin when he was there and then, of course, they replaced him with Emmitt Smith..."

Right. Emmitt. What do you think of Emmitt, Kenny?

"I think he's a great dancer. Great guy. I think he's getting a lot better on television..."

Loosely translated and interpreted: As a current employee of ESPN, Emmitt Smith is a great dancer.

We get back to the book for a little bit. One section that stands out is when Mayne talks about one of his many Rock N' Jock softball appearances. He talks glowingly about being on a team with a teenage Jessica Biel. In the span of 50 words in the book, he mentions this fact at least three times. I imply that he didn't hide his attraction to her that well.

"Well, I think I also said that she could be my niece...she was 18, 19 at the time."

Right, but did you have a boner?

"She was a young, attractive lass. I think it's okay, when she's an, uh, older person that you could mention something like that in the book."

Right, but what if she grew up to be a beast? Would you mention it then?

"No. Then it wouldn't be bragging rights. She was a good contributor to our team."

Translation: boner.

Throughout the conversation, it's obvious that the on-camera Kenny Mayne is remarkably close to his real-life persona: self-effacing, weird-thinking, droll. Outside of a couple of "shits" and one "give a fuck" he doesn't curse. He's in that rarified air of the sports entertainment industry of, essentially, being paid to be himself. He's well aware of what this interview would entail ("You're trying to get me to say something "saucy" about my co-workers"), but chose to participate anyway. He is hopeful that the book does well, and he's more than willing to do anything possible to ensure that it does sell well. He says the publisher has earmarked 40-50 thousand as a success and he's frustrated by how low the number is. "I want to sell a million. And all the publishers were kind of patronizing me, saying, yeah, good luck with that. I could conceivably just stick it on the shelf and just not care — but wouldn't you rather succeed than not succeed?"

Go ahead. Help him succeed